Tatiana Kashirina World Record 190Kg Clean and Jerk

[Gunnhild Bruno]

104.32kg / 230lbs / 0.664 Holley Mangolds, as reported by allthingsgym.

I see what you did there. 'Cause Holley Mangold is REALLY FAT and we can't let any discussion of women's weightlifting happen without implying how unacceptably FAT she is, right?

Never mind that she's nowhere near strong enough for her weight to factor into the possibility of medaling, which is the real problem and one shared by all American lifters, even the ones who are not ZOMG FAT.

[dmworking]

You're doing that thing where you put words in people's mouths and then get mad about the words you wanted them to say.

[Subsistence]

I see what you did there. 'Cause Holley Mangold is REALLY FAT and we can't let any discussion of women's weightlifting happen without implying how unacceptably FAT she is, right?

Never mind that she's nowhere near strong enough for her weight to factor into the possibility of medaling, which is the real problem and one shared by all American lifters, even the ones who are not ZOMG FAT.

Did I miss something here? Rip asked her bodyweight and this guy replied, did he not? Where does the vitriol come from?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I see what you did there. 'Cause Holley Mangold is REALLY FAT and we can't let any discussion of women's weightlifting happen without implying how unacceptably FAT she is, right?

Never mind that she's nowhere near strong enough for her weight to factor into the possibility of medaling, which is the real problem and one shared by all American lifters, even the ones who are not ZOMG FAT.

Simma, I would have to say that the body comp of our two female 2012 Olympians makes them unusual wrt the vast majority of their competitors, in their weight class and in the women's division. There has been some discussion of this matter as it relates to our program's ability to generate talent at the international level, both here and elsewhere. I think this is the issue, and it has been for a while. And I don't think he was being particularly vicious with this comment.

[quewviix]

One thing the american coaches need to realize is that olympic weightlifting is a sport. In no other sport do you rely solely on the practice of the sport to improve your performance especially in a sport were STRENGTH can easily be a limiting factor. So many coaches will say that deadlifts are terrible for olympic lifters because they are performed slow. Now maybe I am not intelligent enough to understand the complexities of the sport but I think if you take a guy who can deadlift 1000 pounds and teach h8m the lifts he will probably break a few records.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

Did I miss something here? Rip asked her bodyweight and this guy replied, did he not? Where does the vitriol come from?

If I'm not mistaken, it's a bit odd to report an athlete's weight in Mangolds, a unit which is particularly non-standard.

I'm also pretty sure that all of us with eyes know already without needing it mentioned that Kashirina weighs much less than Mangold.

Simma, I would have to say that the body comp of our two female 2012 Olympians makes them unusual wrt the vast majority of their competitors, in their weight class and in the women's division. There has been some discussion of this matter as it relates to our program's ability to generate talent at the international level, both here and elsewhere. I think this is the issue, and it has been for a while. And I don't think he was being particularly vicious with this comment.

You're doing that thing where you put words in people's mouths and then get mad about the words you wanted them to say.

It's possible I was reading too much into it given the general tenor of discussion around the web on Holley's appearance on The Biggest Loser and the fact that the last thread about Holley around these parts involved posts like this and this.

So if dmworking meant to make an objective point of some kind, I apologize. Perhaps he could clarify what his point was.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I somehow missed those posts. I think it is unfortunate that our program is unable to generate international-level totals at a more athletic body comp, and still place no better than we did. I wish Holley good success in anything she tries to do.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

I somehow missed those posts.

For good reason; they were down in E&P, and people don't behave as badly up here. Because anonymous Internet typists are what they are.

I think it is unfortunate that our program is unable to generate international-level totals at a more athletic body comp, and still place no better than we did.

I think we're all agreed on that around here.

[dmworking]

If I'm not mistaken, it's a bit odd to report an athlete's weight in Mangolds, a unit which is particularly non-standard.

Yes, it is non-standard. That's the point. It is quite the outlier for the exact sport and weight class in which this other lifter performed so exceptionally. I realize that this is not a new revelation, although maybe it is a new way to conceptualize the difference. Maybe that's why I said it that way.

So if dmworking meant to make an objective point of some kind, I apologize. Perhaps he could clarify what his point was.

It was a short but biting satirical commentary on the current state of US weightlifting. In other words, a joke.

The butt of the joke is not Ms. Mangold-- the butt of the joke is the talent disparity between our best lifter in that particular weight class and their best lifter in that particular weight class. It is also not a commentary on my opinion of Ms. Mangold's weight-- if I had one, it is of no interest to her or anyone on this board or anyone else in the world who didn't ask to hear it. I agree with you that many people are far too eager to share their opinions of female weightlifters' physiques across all weight classes.

If I were to go about communicating the weights of all sorts of everyday items (cars, milk, your seriousness) in our new unit of measure, then sure, that would be an intellectually sophomoric brand of "loogit the fat girl" humor. That's not what this is.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

YIt was a short but biting satirical commentary on the current state of US weightlifting. In other words, a joke.

I guess I don't find it particularly incisive, since I don't know that "our lifters are fatter" is particularly disheartening when you're talking about an open-ended class. "Our lifters are weaker" is what hurts. USAWeighlifting's problems doesn't boil down to "Mangold is fat". It boils down to "a 22 year old Russian woman is comparable in strength to our top male 105s".