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Thread: Prerequisites for the Olympic lifts

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgreen06 View Post
    this is the most succinct way I've seen you put this and I agree it's the most important distinction. They clearly agree that strength is important but they believe that they will gain their strength from practicing the 3 lifts ( snatch, clean and jerk ) and that squats should be an assistance exercise and not the main driver of strength.

    This is stated clearly in Greg Everett's book though I don't have the text in front of me so can't cite the page number.
    I would be interested in a short synopsis of the argument he makes regarding that issue. If someone has the text this would be much appreciated.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Wait, what? You're either being sarcastic or I missed something. Are you referring to the fact that quick lift effort is so far submaximal with respect to slow lift strength that it can't be effectively used to drive those numbers?
    Dass riight. Where have you been? Snatches don't make deadlifts go up. But a man with a 500 deadlift ALWAYS cleans more than a man with a 200 deadlift.

    Quote Originally Posted by kgreen06 View Post
    beats me... but the argument of specificity is what's used in the book.

    Thing is, this isn't what the international community is doing. They're using heavy deads, heavy squats and heavy presses. Go figure...

    When I get home I'll reply with the argument from their text, if you'll let me of course...
    No need. I know what they think, and it's not interesting enough to hash out again. E&P awaits the topic. The fact that no current American Olympic weightlifter can deadlift 700 tells you what you need to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by steven-miller View Post
    I would be interested in a short synopsis of the argument he makes regarding that issue. If someone has the text this would be much appreciated.
    If your curious, buy his book. Everett has to eat too, and we're not going to reproduce here what you should be buying from him.

  3. #13
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    A guy who's visited China's weightlifters tells us lots of interesting things, including the fact that some coaches give weekly cash rewards to lifters who max out (though he doesn't say in which lifts, presumably it'd vary week-to-week), and finishes with,

    "One of the coaches told me as a 62kg(137#) lifter if you can’t squat 230kgs(506#) minimum then there is no hope for him in China. If a 62kg athlete can’t pull that same weight then there is no hope."

    By comparison, the wrapless world record squat is listed by powerlifting watch as 551/556 lbs for that weight range. Allowing for some idle boasting by the Chinese coach, he's talking about 80-90% of the world record powerlifter's squats as a basis for a world-class weightlifter.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Dass riight. Where have you been? Snatches don't make deadlifts go up. But a man with a 500 deadlift ALWAYS cleans more than a man with a 200 deadlift.
    Been right here, but for some reason I can't hear the sarcasm dripping in your voice from here.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashid29 View Post
    From the the people I have trained with, granted it is not a huge sample size, I have come to the conclusion that if you are a 17+ male you need to squat at least 400lbs before you can seriously attempt the olympic lifts. This is regardless of your bodyweight. The guys who have reached this threshold have the strength to snatch, clean, and jerk a weight that is at least 100kg.
    Just an anecdote, but my personal bests were 132kg/105kg @ 105kg at 24 and I never back squatted more than 170kg (high bar), and I don't know how much I could deadlift at the time since we never tested it but it was probably around the same.

    Now I'm not saying that those personal bests wouldn't be higher if I was stronger but what you say isn't quite correct.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    If your curious, buy his book. Everett has to eat too, and we're not going to reproduce here what you should be buying from him.
    I certainly did not ask for a reproduction of his text, just a 2-3 sentence synopsis of the specific argument he is making regarding the issue in the interest of evaluating the merits of it. But you may be right and I should buy his book anyways so that I can form a more educated opinion about it.

    Have you read Everett's book and would you recommend it to me?

  7. #17
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    I haven't read it. But then, I don't read exercise books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Been right here, but for some reason I can't hear the sarcasm dripping in your voice from here.
    I guess I'm confused about what you don't understand.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I guess I'm confused about what you don't understand.
    Oh I get it, I just read/took what you wrote a little out of context - like you were saying volume doesn't make you stronger. Which is, of course, absurd, so I was checking my reading comprehension and interpretation.

    It's been a really rough couple of weeks out this way, so I'm not firing on all two cylinders mentally and just needed to check. Your extreme patience is appreciated.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunetdanne View Post
    People are obessed about "squat heavy Ol big numbers". However this is seldom true. A lot of people should stop thinking about just squating and focusing on their pulls instead that would generate more kg to their ol-lifts.

    Several Russian studies confirmes that any extra quad strength gained from squats does not generate any additonal value to the olympic-lifts if the PC is weak. Am I saying dont squat, nope ! I am saying work on your weakness, for some this is quad strength, for others its PC strength, for some upper body strength etc.
    IIRC, the big Russian bear known as Taranenko said there was no need to improve his squat any further after he was squatting 330 kilos for a triple.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashid29 View Post
    From the the people I have trained with, granted it is not a huge sample size, I have come to the conclusion that if you are a 17+ male you need to squat at least 400lbs before you can seriously attempt the olympic lifts. This is regardless of your bodyweight. The guys who have reached this threshold have the strength to snatch, clean, and jerk a weight that is at least 100kg. Obviously you have to keep getting substantially stronger but until you reach this point the ONLY priority in your training should be to squat and deadlift more.
    Quote Originally Posted by tnumrych View Post
    Just an anecdote, but my personal bests were 132kg/105kg @ 105kg at 24 and I never back squatted more than 170kg (high bar), and I don't know how much I could deadlift at the time since we never tested it but it was probably around the same.

    Now I'm not saying that those personal bests wouldn't be higher if I was stronger but what you say isn't quite correct.
    Not that it really matters, but does anyone else notice the similarities in the bolded numbers above? Especially if Rashid is referring to low bar?

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