Rest and Failed reps.

[WayneL]

I some confusion related to working to failure, and rest between sets.

I generally err on the side of resting more than I need to due to a couple of things I noticed/observed, and I was wondering if this is more in my head or if there may be a biological/mechanical reason for them.

First and most obviously, if I do not rest enough between work sets, I do not hit every rep in my work set. So if I do a hard set of 5 on bench, and get back under the bar 1 minute later, I'm not hitting all 5 reps. I'm not sure I really get the science behind it. I've read something about VO2 or some-such, but that it doesn't' take a super long time to replenish most of it or something. Additionally, it does feel like conditioning does affect to some degree the ability to recover faster, as well as obvious stuff like smoking.

Second, I feel like if I fail on say the fourth rep out 5, somewhat irregardless of a reasonable rest period I will not hit the fifth repetition on that weight in that session. It doesn't seem to happen necessarily with 1RM. So If I try for a 160 OHP, and don't make it, I can rest for a couple minutes, hit it again with better form/focus and lock it out. With Higher repetitions though, and I've tried, it's never happened. So I hit a set of 5, don't rest enough, comeback and get 4. Rest longer, and I can only get 4, or sometimes 3. So I feel like I've exhausted the necessary muscles for the exercise.

Third, Any sessions that end up doing "reps to failure" due to an inability to complete my sets feel harder to recover from, and often agitate individual muscles more. I am assuming due to breakdown of form occurring from gassing out. This may also account for what I am seeing in regard to my second observation.

Fourth. Larger muscles seem to recover faster/easier than smaller muscles. I'm not sure on this at all, but If I miss a rep on a 5x5 squat I can do 1x5 and then 4x5. Once I miss a rep on OP though I seem to loose a rep with each successive set. 1x5,1x4,1x3 ect.

Do any of these observations mesh with your experience? Am I off base, or are there other things I may want to know/account for? For example, if smaller muscles recover slower than larger, I may want to make sure I give more time after my last warm-up with the Press than I may feel I need for squats.

--This may be a duplicate, I was logged out, and only got a blank page once logging in. Sorry if this doubled.

[Mark Rippetoe]

These are all reasonable observations, with the exception of:

So if I do a hard set of 5 on bench, and get back under the bar 1 minute later, I'm not hitting all 5 reps.

One minute? Try 7-8 minutes. We are not doing conditioning.

[BareSteel]

I've noticed some of these things too. No question that a failed set is a physically stressful experience. Even if it's a weight you could have handled with another two minutes of rest, it means that for that given set you recruited as many motor units as your body could and it still wasn't enough to do the job.

So if your goal is three sets of five, the third set will be easier to accomplish if set two was a grindy set of five versus if set two was a failed 5th rep due to inadequate rest. You're the same trainee, but you've used up some reserves and accidentally made the second set needlessly harder than it had to be.

[Philbert]

I have read (I think in a post by Jordan on this forum)that something in the range of 7 minutes is required for muscle cells to re-phosphorylate APT and phosphocreatine after intense efforts. If you start this seven minutes from the time your heart rate returns to normal after the set, then you need about 10 minutes between sets. You can use less rest if you are still in the early stages of progression, but increasing rest between sets toward 10 minutes should be one of the first responses to missed reps.

[dpinsen]

I've noticed some of these things too. No question that a failed set is a physically stressful experience. Even if it's a weight you could have handled with another two minutes of rest, it means that for that given set you recruited as many motor units as your body could and it still wasn't enough to do the job.

So if your goal is three sets of five, the third set will be easier to accomplish if set two was a grindy set of five versus if set two was a failed 5th rep due to inadequate rest. You're the same trainee, but you've used up some reserves and accidentally made the second set needlessly harder than it had to be.

How often to people make all 5 reps of a 3rd set when they missed a rep on the previous set despite adequate rest? Maybe more realistic to aim for 4 reps at that point?

[BareSteel]

Probably a poor example, but just my way of illustrating that reaching that level of exertion can affect a trainee's ability to display existing strength for latter sets.