Power Cleans vs Full Cleans

[Peter Nathan]

I was thinking about Rip’s rationale for including power cleans rather than full cleans in strength training. To be included in a training program, an exercise should use the greatest muscle mass to move the most weight over the greatest efficient distance. The power clean moves the bar from the floor to the shoulders with the lifter standing upright, or with slightly bent knees. The full clean is received in a full squat, and so the weight has not travelled as far. Both exercises use the same muscles to lift and propel the bar. Thus, the argument goes, the power clean is the preferred exercise for the strength trainer because the weight is moved over a greater distance. In addition, most of us are not weightlifting competitors, so the the additional mobility and technical ability necessary to perform the full clean are a needless imposition on one’s time and coordination.

However, even though the bar moves a greater distance in the power clean, the application of muscular force to the bar occurs over the same distance in both movements. The lifter pulls the bar from the floor and violently extends his body when the bar reaches mid-thigh. At the point of full extension the lifter’s feet break from the floor. When the feet leave the floor, the application of power stops. Thus the two lifts apply force over the identical distance, floor to mid thigh. The fact that the bar moves all the way to the shoulders in a power clean is physiologically irrelevant. More weight can be lifted in the full clean, so according to the criteria should be the preferred lift for strength training. Yes, it demands more of one’s mobility and coordination, but is that a compelling argument for its exclusion?

[Mark Rippetoe]

1. The power clean uses a lighter weight that can be accelerated harder. Power is the point, not the ability to get under a heavier, slower pull at a lower position. You're correct in that the clean part is the same, but a power clean suits our purposes better because power is the objective for novice lifters and general strength and conditioning.

2. At least as important is the fact that almost all novice lifters -- almost without exception -- tend to squat with too vertical a back angle. The seminars you've worked with us have shown you the problems with squatting, and that it is harder to correct the squat than it is to teach the clean. Front squatting the squat will be reinforced by front squatting the clean, and until the two movement patterns can be separated by the lifter, we have found that the squat clean can safely wait a while.

[wk105]

Does the power clean have much carryover to the squat?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Everything contributes to everything else.

[Sean Herbison]

1. The power clean uses a lighter weight that can be accelerated harder. Power is the point, not the ability to get under a heavier, slower pull at a lower position.

Can you clarify what you mean by "accelerated harder?" The power clean is preferred over the power snatch due largely to the ability to use a heavier weight, even though power snatches display more peak power. Second point (squat technique) aside for the moment, would this not apply equally well to the power clean vs. the full clean?

I hadn't thought about it like this before, so maybe I'm missing something.

[Mark Rippetoe]

For a power clean that must be racked high, 150k will be moving faster at the top of the pull than the 160k you're going to catch at the bottom. Bar moved farther, had to move faster, because more momentum was required for the longer bar path. Both pulls stop at the top of the pull, more acceleration had to be performed to make the 150k continue upward longer after the pull stops. Thus, more power, no front squat.

[kel]

Would it be safe to say the power clean is preferred simply because the novice does not need extra leg work? Or is that an oversimplification.

[Mark Rippetoe]

That is an oversimplification. Read.

[Sean Herbison]

For a power clean that must be racked high, 150k will be moving faster at the top of the pull than the 160k you're going to catch at the bottom. Bar moved farther, had to move faster, because more momentum was required for the longer bar path. Both pulls stop at the top of the pull, more acceleration had to be performed to make the 150k continue upward longer after the pull stops. Thus, more power, no front squat.

This is certainly true for myself, as well as others who can power clean close to (or more than) they full clean. But if the weight difference between clean and power clean is high enough, the full clean could require more power. Since acceleration is not the only thing that matters (I can accelerate an empty bar much faster than a loaded one), this could make a difference.

On the other hand, I haven't looked into what a good power clean/clean ratio is, so this may never actually come into play in a real life situation. Even very efficient lifters may not have a large enough difference.

Basically it seems like a weight that is heavy enough to make a significant difference in the M part of the power equation will substantially decrease the A portion, due to the slower speed and shorter path. As long as it's light enough to power clean, the speed will stay roughly the same while the force required goes up. If it gets heavy enough to require a full clean, it's slowed to the point where the speed is inadequate to get it to the shoulders, and the range is essentially cut in half.

That's more than I meant to type, but was it fairly correct? I could try to further clear it up, but I think I'd do more harm than good.

[Goatamon]

My (possibly oversimplified) understanding had always been that the power clean is used because we are using the olympic lifts to develop power. Power is sort of the whole point of those olympic lift variants, right? It's kind of in the name. You have to pull the bar higher in the power clean than in the full clean, so in other words, the bar has to move faster. Therefore, the power clean is superior as a developer of power. Would it be correct to say that the full versions of the olympic lifts are only really useful for people who compete in those lifts?

Did I get it?