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Thread: The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie???

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    Mark you need to read Revelations, trumpets come first mate, you know, the kind that wake up the dead. Haa!
    They got flaming swords in Revelations just like the Aesir wield. I've read the book.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Not necessarily. For instance, with the origin of the universe, the first person to propose the big bang theory was an astronomer, who also happened to be a Catholic priest. Of course, the rest of the scientific community scoffed until Hubble discovered the red shift. Many were perfectly content to not find a "beginning" of the universe (mostly becasue of the implications of a universe having a beginning which have nothing to do with science) until that point.
    The scientific community waited for empirical evidence? Shocking.

    At least Georges Lemaître was only scoffed at, and not placed under house arrest and banned in a Papal inquisition from teaching/writing, as Galileo was for the heretic proposition of a heliocentric universe.

    Because the church has all the answers. Proper science does not pretend to have all the answers.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    They got flaming swords in Revelations just like the Aesir wield. I've read the book.
    Good lad. But only One God not a plurality.

    Have a read of this.

    Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    I like armour, and this stuff is stronger than Kevlar.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Not necessarily. For instance, with the origin of the universe, the first person to propose the big bang theory was an astronomer, who also happened to be a Catholic priest. Of course, the rest of the scientific community scoffed until Hubble discovered the red shift. Many were perfectly content to not find a "beginning" of the universe (mostly becasue of the implications of a universe having a beginning which have nothing to do with science) until that point.
    Looking back, what I said was not entirely the point I wanted to make and did not encompass my overall view.

    The larger point is that religion is slowing down human progress. A world without religion does not pretend to know the answers. If we acknowledge what we do not know, we will become more intellectually driven to find the answers.

    Not only that, but the entire idea of accepting a religion as a guide for your life implies that you are content in believing that a story in an old book is unquestionable truth about the universe. I fail to see how having a society full of individuals that are happy with this premise is not an impediment to said society's evolution.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Wal, Revelations is bad, poorly-written fiction.
    Not unlike some exercise training manuals that are on the market, fortunately yours are not. Revelations is apocalyptic in nature, it is an unveiling of the end time events of this age. Sometimes when an author writes it is at a level beyond certain folk to comprehend, what I mean is some folk who do not have the discipline to study will fall away. Your training manuals are well written and constructed but require more than a cursory glance therefore it (Revelation) takes effort, which is the same principle you apply to Starting Strength.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by John W View Post
    The scientific community waited for empirical evidence? Shocking.

    At least Georges Lemaître was only scoffed at, and not placed under house arrest and banned in a Papal inquisition from teaching/writing, as Galileo was for the heretic proposition of a heliocentric universe.

    Because the church has all the answers. Proper science does not pretend to have all the answers.
    Galileo was not imprisoned for his heliocentric proposition (which he had no actual proof of at the time). He continued to make the claim without evidence anyway. It came to him in a dream, btw...not because of some great scientific insight.

    Galileo was actually imprisoned for his theology which was at odds with Rome. That's bad on its own merit, but it's got nothing to do with science. At all.

    But the guy who actually did prove the Heliocentric universe, Copernicus, was also a deeply religious man, and was even buried in a Cathedral. So was Isaac Newton, the guy who started classical physics and invented calculus. These guys weren't just passively religious. It was what drove them.

    So the idea that religious people are somehow incurious is ridiculous. Yes, there are a lot of people who say, "God did it. That's all I need to know". But their non-religious counterparts just say, "I don't know, and I don't care". Their lack of religion doesn't make them one bit more scientifically curious.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    Not unlike some exercise training manuals that are on the market, fortunately yours are not. Revelations is apocalyptic in nature, it is an unveiling of the end time events of this age. Sometimes when an author writes it is at a level beyond certain folk to comprehend, what I mean is some folk who do not have the discipline to study will fall away. Your training manuals are well written and constructed but require more than a cursory glance therefore it (Revelation) takes effort, which is the same principle you apply to Starting Strength.
    How does this cryptic description of the end times in Revelation compare with the relatively straightforward account of creation in Genesis? Is that open to interpretation too?

  8. #108
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    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

    Behold: It is written!* There are worse wagers to lose than Pascal's. When Cthulhu awakes from his lifeless dreaming, and he lifts his incomprehensible countenance upon the unbelievers, they will wish they had been set adrift in the lake of fire.

    This might all be bullshit, but why take the chance, amirite? Submit!

    * It's right there at the top! Plus, it's in a book!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Galileo was not imprisoned for his heliocentric proposition (which he had no actual proof of at the time). He continued to make the claim without evidence anyway. It came to him in a dream, btw...not because of some great scientific insight.

    Galileo was actually imprisoned for his theology which was at odds with Rome. That's bad on its own merit, but it's got nothing to do with science. At all.

    But the guy who actually did prove the Heliocentric universe, Copernicus, was also a deeply religious man, and was even buried in a Cathedral. So was Isaac Newton, the guy who started classical physics and invented calculus. These guys weren't just passively religious. It was what drove them.

    So the idea that religious people are somehow incurious is ridiculous. Yes, there are a lot of people who say, "God did it. That's all I need to know". But their non-religious counterparts just say, "I don't know, and I don't care". Their lack of religion doesn't make them one bit more scientifically curious.
    OK, I'm going to get skewered for the Galileo "dream" thing. I don't know where that came from...but I'm blaming Neil Tyson Degrasse's Cosmos...

    Anyway, the point remains, he really didn't have proof to back up what he was saying, and he stepped way too deep into theology, which was what resulted in his house arrest.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simma Park View Post
    Yeah, if you're going to talk about social phenomena that are more than a generation or two old, applying the political labels of your own time will be largely useless and serves not to get an accurate picture of history but rather to reinforce the political bickering of the present.
    Wow. It is not as painful to agree with Simma as I dreaded.

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