The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie???

[Mark E. Hurling]

I think you're missing the point that religion tried to squash scientific inquiry, because religion has all the answers and truth outlined in that silly book.

You're mistaken about that. In the main, the Catholic church in the form of it's libraries and monasteries were the repositories for scholarship and scientific inquiry all through the Dark and Middle Ages. Granted, there a few retrograde examples like the treatment of Copernicus, but Roger Bacon is a better model to keep in mind.

[kcc]

The fact is that the Bible's a big book that says a lot of fancy stuff. You can take any opinion you have, look through it, and find a quote that supports your opinion. It's also a pretty jumbled up book, having been written over the course of hundreds of years by many different authors. Human beings, not God, Jesus, or even angels, wrote the Bible. So these human beings, being, you know, human, probably wrote down things that supported their own opinions, not caring whether or not it contradicted something someone else wrote a century earlier.

Does this make the Bible the world's first Wiki?

[Jailhouse Hopkins]

Single distilleries still produce a blend correct? Or do you mean single barrel whiskey? Enlighten me. I am a dumb ass when it comes to this stuff.

Any way you are a blend right? Scot and Irish I bet. A fine mixture. I don't reckon your mom and dad questioned the existence of God when you popped out.

I come from a line of street urchins. The old man definitely thanked something when he saw there was cock attached. Probably even muttered " thank fucking Christ!"

[perman]

This is simply false on so many levels. There are plenty of people religious or otherwise who are content with their presuppositions and decide to be close minded just as there are people from all sorts of views who are able hold their presuppositions with a bit of humility and even some who's presuppositions drive them to curiosity. If you cannot see this then you either have a huge case of confirmation bias protecting your own presuppositions or you need to get out a hell of a lot more.

Wal represents a personality type more than anything else. That personality will latch onto all sorts of belief systems; religious or otherwise.

You're ignoring the prime variable of quantity, scale, proportion or whatever you want to call it here. That both ignorant and clever religious people exist is as irrelevant as the fact that both ignorant and clever non-religious people exist.

Fact of the matter is, all sorts of statistics reveal religious people to be more ignorant. Religiosity is pretty well-correlated (negatively) with wealth, education, IQ, crime (positively) and so on both on individual levels and on regional and country levels. Basically, there's massive evidence for religious people being more stupid, less professionally competent, more criminal and so on.

That this offends is the problem of the religious, non-religious people shouldn't have to hide the truth or sugar-coat just because some find it uncomfortable.

[CJ Gotcher]

I think you're missing the point that religion tried to squash scientific inquiry, because religion has all the answers and truth outlined in that silly book.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go stone my neighbor for sweeping his sidewalk on the Sabbath.

Saying "religion did X" is like saying "scientists all agree that X."

If you want to be correct, "A single person (or group) claiming to adhere to a particular religion at one point in time did X."

Not all people following that religion will do X. Not all people claiming to adhere to that religion actually believe/live that faith. Not all interpretations of a religion come to the same conclusions. Not all the faithful act as their predecessors did even when they hold the same interpretations (religion being only one of a number of factors in how we make decisions).

Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal God, but yet his fixed belief in the marvelous structure of the universe (paraphrased as "God does not play dice") limited his ability to perceive the next advance in physics- quantum theory.

There is a fundamental quality in 'truth-seeking,' whether in science, mathematics, or coaching: the willingness to ask a question and to accept the result with humility and flexibility (because even an honest answer may not be the 'right' one), regardless of one's bias. An atheist can get caught up in their biases as easily as a believer can, just as a believer may, out of a desire to understand how His universe works, make incredible scientific discoveries.

[wal]

What about colored horses?

Well what about them? You told me you use to be a horse trader? You should know what horses mean. Do you not use Thor's hammer as a symbol of strength and power for the Aasgaard, the home of a tribe of gods. Come on man what are you saying? Mjolnir what does it mean, what does it do? You know how to interpret and use symbols.

How about New York City?

Maybe, has a lot of the characteristics, strange that there is city within called Babylon and has Roman goddess parked outside. But as I said it is just speculation on my part.

Probably not, wal.

You mean you want more!? I would love to continue but I have to go to the big smoke for a few days, I will not be around for a while, thank God the bugger is gone, right?

An excellent rule of thumb is that if you think the Bible is easy to understand, you do not understand it.

An excellent rule of thumb is that if you think it is too heavy to lift it is.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Do you think you can lift this?

When you see a barbel on the floor loaded, you have a choice, lift it or leave it, same for the gospel, you either accept or reject it, you either take up the challenge or walk away, what is your decision?

Well, the one true church exists without the walls of denominations, but included in many, in a field of wheat there are tares, but the winnowing process will conducted at the end of this age. What are you wheat or weed?

Wal, I'm Christian too. Lutheran, to be more specific. I believe the Bible, but I can't agree with you here. If the Bible was not difficult to understand, we would not have so many disagreements about it. It requires a lot of knowledge to understand, and this includes historical and sociological knowledge of the time period over which is was written and compiled.

Even people who understood the setting and had the background knowledge disagreed about parts. Look at Luther and Calvin. Both of them believed the Bible alone was the basis for religion, but they had different ideas about salvation.

Revelation in particular is difficult to discern, and requires a whole lot of cultural context just for that one book.

Anyhow, I generally refrain from debating religion online. Very little gets accomplished and people more often get angry than educated. In person, I'm more than happy to discuss it, but it's usually counterproductive over online forums.

Why get angry? Mark Rippetoe has an excellent site here where many topics apart from religion are discussed, not everybody agrees with what is posted, and I know what I say is challenging, but these guys and gals here by the very fact are power lifters are more than qualified to handle a challenge. If Rippetoe offered an open challenge at his Gym and asked who ever to come, would these folk turn away, I don't think so.

What about Marin Luther? did he back off when he challenged the religious hierarchy of his day. Other wise you and me would still be in the dark, should not light be shown in the darkness?

So would you like me to cease and desist?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Well what about them? You told me you use to be a horse trader? You should know what horses mean. Do you not use Thor's hammer as a symbol of strength and power for the Aasgaard, the home of a tribe of gods. Come on man what are you saying? Mjolnir what does it mean, what does it do? You know how to interpret and use symbols.

So you're not a Fundamentalist after all. Good.

[paterfamilias]

All I know is if I ever find Jesus, I'm kickin' his ass.



In other news, I had a wal-like snake oil salesmen in my family, and he was as delusional, smug, self-important and impervious to clear-thinking as wal is on the subject, and he kept it up for most of his 98 years (and all the years I shared with him on this planet).
RIP Gramps. You made me an atheist.

[Rob Waskis]

Fact of the matter is, all sorts of statistics reveal religious people to be more ignorant. Religiosity is pretty well-correlated (negatively) with wealth, education, IQ, crime (positively) and so on both on individual levels and on regional and country levels. Basically, there's massive evidence for religious people being more stupid, less professionally competent, more criminal and so on.

Sources please

[wal]

So you're not a Fundamentalist after all. Good.

No sir. Just an old follower of Christ, nothing more nothing less, but you already knew that long ago. Don't forget that Dellingr "the shinning one", helel in Hebrew is returning on the white horse dressed in white, the king of Babylon wants his throne back, howbeit if only for a short time.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

As I said time is running out choose which side carefully.