The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie???

[wal]

I come from a line of street urchins. The old man definitely thanked something when he saw there was cock attached. Probably even muttered " thank fucking Christ!"

Well there you go, urchins blends are very acceptable. Although a tad crude on the palate.

[John Watson]

That's a ridiculous assertion, and is demonstrably untrue. Here's a good list to start with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ric-scientists

Any claims to the contrary can now be considered pure bigotry in the face of the facts.

It's very smart to feign piety in a religious culture that punished heresy with Inquisitions and torture, and obstructed science. Galileo should known better than to rile these religious fools.

No if you'll excuse me I need to head to Home Depot for a large amount of stones, and then to the West Village to perform stonings, as prescribed in the Bible.

[HeavyMetal]

It's very smart to feign piety in a religious culture that punished heresy with Inquisitions and torture, and obstructed science. Galileo should known better than to rile these religious fools.

No if you'll excuse me I need to head to Home Depot for a large amount of stones, and then to the West Village to perform stonings, as prescribed in the Bible.

There are much easier ways to feign piety than to become a priest and even a bishop.

Just admit you've got nothing to back up your silly claim. It's just a bigoted meme that keeps getting repeated by people with an ax to grind.

[Sean Herbison]

Why get angry?

If it's directed at me, I'm not. I'm simply reporting what I've seen the trend to be.

What about Marin Luther? did he back off when he challenged the religious hierarchy of his day.

I'm not sure how that's related, but no, he did not, thankfully.

So would you like me to cease and desist?

By all means continue. I'm simply explaining why I generally refrain from online discussions in this vein, and why I disagree with your assertion that the Bible is not difficult to understand.

The basics, certainly. If you believe the Bible is God's word you can agree on the overarching tenants. There's a God, he sent Jesus, believe and be saved. Great.

Other parts, not so much, and Revelation is probably the most difficult of all. What's the sea of glass? Who are the two witnesses? (Speaking of, Fire of Heaven trilogy by Bill Myers is worth a read. Just fiction, not study material.) What does the star Wormwood mean? What about a third of the stars being swept out of the sky, the moon turning blood red, and other astronomical references? It's not something you can just read carefully and understand without a whole lot of connecting bits of knowledge.

[Sean Herbison]

Bacon is a better model

[Savs]

Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal God, but yet his fixed belief in the marvelous structure of the universe (paraphrased as "God does not play dice") limited his ability to perceive the next advance in physics- quantum theory.

Bullshit.

Two mysteries played a big role in the development of quantum mechanics: the "ultraviolet catastrophe" in black body radiation and the photoelectric effect. Care to guess who explained them both by postulating quanta of light? I'll give you a hint. His first name was Albert and he was awarded a Nobel Prize in 1921 for this work, not his work on relativity.

Nobody is truly happy with quantum mechanics. Einstein's (and others' - for example, David Bohm's) objection was a belief that the quantum mechanical state is incomplete, there are hidden variables. This position is quite different from saying his belief limited his ability to perceive the next advancement of physics, which is exactly what he did.

[wal]

All I know is if I ever find Jesus, I'm kickin' his ass. In other news, I had a wal-like snake oil salesmen in my family, and he was as delusional, smug, self-important and impervious to clear-thinking as wal is on the subject, and he kept it up for most of his 98 years (and all the years I shared with him on this planet).
RIP Gramps. You made me an atheist.

What! delusional, smug, self-important, impervious to clear-thinking, snake oil salesmen, and there I was thinking I was a nice all round guy.

[bugbomb]

Look, the reason so many great men of learning from earlier times were Catholic is because the Catholic Church, in addition to being preservers of knowledge, were hoarders of knowledge.

If you wanted access to learning, being in the church was the way to go. I'm not saying that Bacon et al weren't men of faith; but it seems likely that they were men of faith second.

[John Watson]

You're mistaken about that. In the main, the Catholic church in the form of it's libraries and monasteries were the repositories for scholarship and scientific inquiry all through the Dark and Middle Ages. Granted, there a few retrograde examples like the treatment of Copernicus, but Roger Bacon is a better model to keep in mind.

Well yes, apart from a couple centuries of burning witches, and some minor incidences like the Spanish Inquisition, the church has done and continues to do wonderful things.

Will science find a cure for demonic possession? No. But the Catholic church has Exorcism guidelines in place (updated in 1999) to manage this affliction and rid you of demons if need be.

The church and religious thinking also brings us Christian Science, which tells us that sickness is an illusion, and can be corrected by prayer alone.

The period in Europe dominated by the church was properly called the Dark Ages. Not until the the Enlightenment, the Age of Reason did the old oppressive shackles of religion begin to give way to science.

I'll concede, the Lutherans did well sponsoring JS Bach, though I enjoy much of his secular works while funded by Prince Leopold.

[wal]

As I said before Sean, anything worth reading requires effort and perseverance, the Bible is no exception. Difficulty is not a sign which says stop.

I use to have to read technical manuals for the operation and maintenance of various equipment, they were written in techy type language, sometimes in German, a wonderful language for technical stuff.

A few cursory glances of that stuff would turn my head, but once I got my head round the terms and such, it opened up, Revelation is a type of literature written in an apocalyptic format, it is a technical book, but once you have done a bit of research it opens up.

The key to the whole book is Rev 1v19, from that starting point you can proceed. It does not mean that we will understand everything, but that does not stop me from lifting a few barbels simply because I cannot understand all the technical details of strength training.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Revelation.html

These guys here need to know the claims of the gospel, it is only fair, why should I keep to myself this good news? If they reject it, there is nothing I can do about it. But I will have to give account to Him if I keep my mouth shut when I should have spoken up. I do not want that hanging over my head.

You me have this responsibility.