The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie??? The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie??? - Page 2

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Thread: The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie???

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    This is why I asked if you'd read the article.
    I agree that there is good evidence that people who don't drink die more often and/or have more heart disease. My speculation is just that it might not be a physiological effect of alcohol consumption that's causing this. Higher levels of stress and lower levels of social interaction are both correlated with all sorts of negative health effects, and I think it's plausible that moderate drinkers are just generally more social and less stressed people than people who abstain.

    I shouldn't have said that the research is flawed, because it's (probably) perfectly good observational research that has established a correlation between moderating drinking and increased longevity. I'm just not sure it supports the conclusion that drinking, in the absence of any other changes, will improve someone's health.

  2. #12
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    Full disclosure: I and family are extremely devout. So most people assume we never touch alcohol. Not true.

    1. I think prohibition was idiotic
    2. When we take Communion we use REAL wine, not freakin' grape juice, IOW, exactly like the Apostles did
    3. The very first miracle my Lord did was turn water to wine at a wedding party so the family and guests would be blessed. I love sharing that with people to get their reaction.
    4. My wife's PhD is in food microbiology and is an expert in fermentation, so she is one of the researchers those studies cite. She points out that man could not have survived without fermentation before modern refrigeration. We make our own tonics and medicines, using various brandy, rum, et al for the base. A brandy/ginger/lemon/honey tonic is the best thing for a cold. Take a guess why most all medicine has alcohol as a carrier base !?
    5. As this summary article points out, moderate consumption is more beneficial than either extreme. Being Cajun, wine has been part of our French heritage for eons. The French Paradox is not a paradox if you understand the mechanisms with an open mind.

  3. #13
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    Correlation is not causation.
    Perhaps people of strong and stalwart physical constitutions are able to continue drinking, wheareas people with more frail physical constitutions, (and weaker or more susceptible hearts) discontinue alcohol consumption.

  4. #14
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    Ok so I looked more closely at your comments citing the article showing some evidence that alcohol consumption can "exert direct neuroprotective actions."
    So this week they think that booze is good for your heart, and cognition.

    I quit drinking about two years ago, because, though I enjoyed it, I generally felt like shit the next day or more afterwards, and definitely slower on my feet cognitively.
    I'm prepared to die prematurely from not drinking, for those reasons. Although, I will not rule out having a drink now and again.
    But it just doesn't always feel healthy to me.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    The causative mechanism of alcohol's positive contribution to health
    That one. Because I'm not seeing much here except some correlation and a whole lot of baseless speculation.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejor View Post
    Also, I find it interesting that the dropoff from non-drinker to infrequent drinker is so much larger than the difference between infrequent drinker and the more frequent drinkers.
    That is interesting. Like yourself, I also don't like drinking moderately on a daily basis. It just makes me feel agitated and sleep poorly. But about once a week I'll have 4 or 5 drinks with a big meal, so I guess I'm covered.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCG View Post
    Because I'm not seeing much here except some correlation and a whole lot of baseless speculation.
    Do you know what the word "baseless" means?

    Quote Originally Posted by anticausal View Post
    But about once a week I'll have 4 or 5 drinks with a big meal, so I guess I'm covered.
    I guess the article was too long to read for most people.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Lookie here:














    This is why I asked if you'd read the article.
    In the medical community, especially cardiology, it is very well accepted that around 1-2/day for men and 0-1/women have reduced all-cause mortality across the board vs abstinence or heavy drinking. As to mechanism, take your pick. Alcohol has pleitropic effects - raises HDL cholesterol, dilates blood vessels, makes platelets less sticky, etc, etc, etc. I once heard a lecture from an eminent cardiologist at a conference about longevity and what do we truly have good data for. Pick your parents (longevity often runs in families). Have a lower resting heart rate. Don't smoke. Don't have high blood pressure. Don't be morbidly obese. And drink in moderation.

  9. #19
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    How is the evidence supporting the drinking is healthy hypothesis any better than the evidence that red meat is "bad" for us?

    I don't know whether drinking is good or bad for you, nor do I know whether red meat is bad or good for you.

    I drink and I eat red meat.

    I think it is easy to tout the studies that support one's world view but not pick them apart with the same diligence we do the studies that we don't like as much.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I guess the article was too long to read for most people.
    Ouch!

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