The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie??? The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie??? - Page 3

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Thread: The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie???

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by idlehands View Post
    I've found I have the best training when I am drinking a little at night. Course it might just be the carbs.

    And this makes me want to make mead since I just found a source of honey at cost
    I heard on a local rock station (reliable source there) that beer in reasonable amounts is better for recovery from physical activity than water. What with the carbs and the yeast and all that.

    This explains why rugby players get chocolate wasted after ever match, as far as I'm concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by k_dean_curtis View Post
    Full disclosure: I and family are extremely devout. So most people assume we never touch alcohol. Not true.
    Yes, the phrase "Drink like a Catholic" exists for a reason.

  2. #22
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    From the article;

    How much do you have to drink regularly before you become as likely to die as an abstainer?
    Oddly phrased.
    To my knowledge, they are both 100% likely to die.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I guess the article was too long to read for most people.
    I missed the fine print in the figure. "Less than daily alcohol consumption was defined as drinking three or more times per week but less than one drink per day." So I don't know where I would fall on the U curve with 4 to 5 drinks once a week with a meal. I don't think this non-binge moderate drinking scenario is even covered in the article (I definitely did not read all the links).

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I guess the article was too long to read for most people.
    Guilty.
    It was time to train, and I tried to scan the article very quickly.
    My knee jerk reaction initially was one of doubt and scepticism.
    I'm still not thoroughly convinced after a second quick reading, that if I drank 2 to 4 drinks every single day (not even adjusted for bodyweight) that I would lessen my chance of early mortality.
    They reference diet; is that a (now) healthy high fat/low carb diet, or did they go by last week's metric of low fat, or vegetarian?
    If I drink 2 to 4 drinks every day, I won't feel so good. I have no illness, so the study would not have screened me out. I could handle drinking once a week maybe, and not feel sick of it.
    My pal, on the other hand, drinks a few beers every night of the week, and feels fine. He may be genetically gifted. I may not. This is why among other reasons I'm not convinced; they may have a correlation, but not causation, and if I were to match my pal's drinking habits, it would not be beneficial.

  5. #25
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    It's not that difficult to understand why this country still harps so heavily on drinking, and doesn't like to talk about the health benefits.

    The first bit is what stef mentioned, the fact that we retain a strong puritanical, prohibitionist streak. Arguments about personal responsibility, or liberty, or even well supported medical benefits mean pretty much nothing to people that operate in this mindset.

    The second is that alcohol does, in fact, produce or exacerbate social problems. There are people who are drunks and wreck their lives, and there are people who aren't drunks but who still do stupid shit that endangers themselves and other people when they drink. Driving while intoxicated is stupid, and still fairly common. This seems to me like a reason to talk about personal responsibility, and maybe to introduce people to alcohol before they can drive (it's easier to drink illicitly than to drive illicitly, after all), so they get a lot of the dumb shit out of their system early, like a lot of Europe. And maybe then have a healthy relationship with alcohol, rather than one predicated on getting totally obliterated in college... but you can't tell Americans they should be like Europe.
    Buncha fuckin' socialist, atheist, smelly cheese-eatin' pussies, those Europeans, and all their ideas are therefore bad.

    The second thing feeds the first; it's easy to mount a moral argument against drinking (damn the medical evidence about benefits of moderation) when you can point to dead people, especially dead teenagers and children. And that narrative is not one most people want to put themselves on the other side of, generally speaking.

    The prohibitionist "save the children" argument has so much cultural power that it has taken decades for a drug that does far less harm, and has far greater medical value, to begin to be legalized in a very haphazard manner.

  6. #26
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    A glass of Balvenie sounds mighty fine right now.

  7. #27
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    I don't see why this is so controversial. I don't think it's as big of a deal as the article tries to make it (Alcohol will save your life!), but it's not some impossible contention. I don't drink because I don't want to, but I've never tried to stop an adult from drinking if that's what they want to do. Personally, I think the drinking age should be lowered to at least 18, since that's what we as a society have decided "adult" is for most other applications.

    That said, I didn't dive deep enough into this to see the quality/quantity of the studies, so this may be along the lines of "blueberries/acai berries/salmon/kale are superfoods," or it may actually have legitimate backing.

    Quote Originally Posted by John W View Post
    From the article;
    How much do you have to drink regularly before you become as likely to die as an abstainer?
    Oddly phrased.
    To my knowledge, they are both 100% likely to die.
    I noticed it too, but it's just a shorter way of saying "likely to die at any given age."

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    Yet, despite drinking far less than many European nations, Americans have significantly worse health outcomes than heavier-drinking countries. (For example, despite being heavily out-drunk by the English, we have almost exactly twice their levels of diabetes, cancer, and heart disease.)
    People need to stop using this as evidence of whatever they're trying to prove. I've heard it used for chocolate, wine, red meat, sausages, and others. There are too many factors to use this as support for your argument.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Herbison View Post
    People need to stop using this as evidence of whatever they're trying to prove. I've heard it used for chocolate, wine, red meat, sausages, and others. There are too many factors to use this as support for your argument.
    Good point. I'm sure 5 weeks minimum paid vacation could be one of those contributing factors.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    It's not that difficult to understand why this country still harps so heavily on drinking, and doesn't like to talk about the health benefits.

    The first bit is what stef mentioned, the fact that we retain a strong puritanical, prohibitionist streak. Arguments about personal responsibility, or liberty, or even well supported medical benefits mean pretty much nothing to people that operate in this mindset.
    Interestingly, the Puritans were quite fond of alcoholic beverages. They stopped at Plymouth Rock because they ran out of beer and needed to brew some more, not because they liked the scenery. It comes a bit later in history when temperance became a religious cause.

    In the 1700's through mid 1800's, Americans drank like savages. Consumption was something like 70 gallons of beer or 15.5 gallons of distilled spirits annually per capita. I figure this includes those who didn't drink at all, and children, so those doing the boozing, were probably consuming more.

    The temperance movement gained traction because this actually was causing a lot of social problems. We have a hard time with moderation in America. We don't even do moderation in moderation.

  10. #30
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    Signing in from the UK here. We may well have fewer heart disease deaths than you muricans, but we're way ahead in the cirrhosis stakes. And it's a fairly horrible death, which has killed two friends of mine @ <50 yrs.

    'An analysis in the Lancet showed that between 1960 and 2002, total recorded alcohol consumption in Britain doubled.[5] The same report showed that between 1987-1991, and 1997-2001, cirrhosis mortality in men in Scotland more than doubled (104% increase) and in England and Wales rose by over two thirds (69%). Mortality in women increased by almost half (46% in Scotland and 44% in England and Wales)'

    It's also asymptomatic, so if you drink a lot you might care to have a liver function test.

    Yet moar bad news for those who care to balance the risks in this link, though there are plenty of other articles in the same place if you wish to find a viewpoint that suits you.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0606111801.htm

    To hell with it. Tonight I'm going to balance my risks with a glass of 12 year Balvenie Doublewood and damn the consequences.

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