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Thread: The Mainstream Media and Drinking: How did they agree on this particular lie???

  1. #51
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    Funny how Prohibition gets into the socio-political mix here too. There's been some of the same compare/contrast down in E&P where I linked it with the Earth Day/Global Cooling/Global Warming/Climate Change socio-political movement.

    But to be fair to tertius, I don't quite recall Carrie A. Nation being a creature of the left.



    The Volstead Act was introduced by a republican named (drum roll please) Volstead. Woodrow Wilson vetoed it but had his veto overridden by the House on the same day and by the Senate the next day.

    In any event, politicians of both parties made their careers and lots of under the table graft during the ensuing years ignoring the Act.

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    The Greek Orthodox Church has been serving wine to its church members for nearly two thousands years. The Church doesn't think God has a problem with alcohol.

    I would have preferred that there was a choice. Instead of just sacramental wine, why not sacramental brandy, too? I like brandy :-)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Funny how Prohibition gets into the socio-political mix here too. There's been some of the same compare/contrast down in E&P where I linked it with the Earth Day/Global Cooling/Global Warming/Climate Change socio-political movement.

    But to be fair to tertius, I don't quite recall Carrie A. Nation being a creature of the left.
    Left and right have changed so much meaning over the years, and those who can be classified as such have swapped a number of issues since those times. I'm kind of with tertius in that it doesn't make for a fruitful discussion.

    However...Temperance was also championed by the same people fighting for women's suffrage (Carrie Nation fighting for both), and before these, the abolition of slavery. These were all causes pushed by those we'd today call the "religious left". The religious left was a pretty powerful movement in the 1800's and early 1900's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Left and right have changed so much meaning over the years, and those who can be classified as such have swapped a number of issues since those times. I'm kind of with tertius in that it doesn't make for a fruitful discussion.

    However...Temperance was also championed by the same people fighting for women's suffrage (Carrie Nation fighting for both), and before these, the abolition of slavery. These were all causes pushed by those we'd today call the "religious left". The religious left was a pretty powerful movement in the 1800's and early 1900's.
    The Abolitionists and Temperance adherents of New England and elsewhere would have been surprised to say the least if they were referred to as the religious left, given their own hard shell religious practices and convictions. It took the Viet Nam War for any real traction of leftism to take hold in some of the mainline Christian churches and denominations. From that we derive the likes of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. What with America's chickens coming home to roost and all.

    But if you want a polar opposite of MS Nation, I give you "Red Emma" Goldman.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Left and right have changed so much meaning over the years, and those who can be classified as such have swapped a number of issues since those times. I'm kind of with tertius in that it doesn't make for a fruitful discussion.

    However...Temperance was also championed by the same people fighting for women's suffrage (Carrie Nation fighting for both), and before these, the abolition of slavery. These were all causes pushed by those we'd today call the "religious left". The religious left was a pretty powerful movement in the 1800's and early 1900's.
    Yeah, if you're going to talk about social phenomena that are more than a generation or two old, applying the political labels of your own time will be largely useless and serves not to get an accurate picture of history but rather to reinforce the political bickering of the present.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    The Abolitionists and Temperance adherents of New England and elsewhere would have been surprised to say the least if they were referred to as the religious left, given their own hard shell religious practices and convictions. It took the Viet Nam War for any real traction of leftism to take hold in some of the mainline Christian churches and denominations. From that we derive the likes of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. What with America's chickens coming home to roost and all.
    I'm not so sure, Mark. I think that Dorothy Day and Jane Addams would've considered themselves the "religious left".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj View Post
    I'm not so sure, Mark. I think that Dorothy Day and Jane Addams would've considered themselves the "religious left".
    No doubt they would. But Day's Catholic Workers Organization was as representative of mainstream Catholic thinking and practice as Opus Dei. Both representing polar opposites in political alignment but which ignore the much larger mushy middle (albeit generally socially conservative) of Catholics.

    It's interesting you talk about Addams. In all the things I learned about her as a kid, her religious alignment was never talked about. Just her secular concerns for the poor. I had to do some on the spot looking up of her background to find some Presbyterian linkages for her. Not that I disbelieved you, but my response was huh? Since when? I do know that her religious alignments and convictions got very short shrift when her good works were described in the history classes I had in school. Since Hull House was in Chicago she was not exactly ignored in my Illinois textbooks.

    In any event, I cede your point to be materially correct, although they seemed to have little wide spread influence during the times of their works. The Berrigan Brothers and their like were a whole other matter during the Big Bad Nam. Their leftism and their religiosity were inextricably linked. Them being priests and all.

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    How do you guys think drinking effects your training? At 36, I feel that a little drink here and there doesn't hurt, but 2-4 drinks a day would definitely have a negative effect on my training. I know people who drink more and still get great results, but usually it is the other "supplementation" that helps a lot. Those probably don't help with the longevity though. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by medwards View Post
    For what it's worth, I think the conservative branch of the American church has made a mistake in aligning teetotaling with devoutness. It's extra-Biblical, to start. Given the number of regular attenders who have a case in the fridge out in the garage, I suspect the church's position will quietly change over the next generation or two.
    It is rather ironic that the sections of Christianity that demonizes alcohol tends to be the Bible-only folks and from the Anabaptist traditions. You could probably make a pretty accurate case for the closer your church looks like the Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox, the more booze that parishioners are consuming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simma Park View Post
    Yeah, if you're going to talk about social phenomena that are more than a generation or two old, applying the political labels of your own time will be largely useless and serves not to get an accurate picture of history but rather to reinforce the political bickering of the present.
    That seems to be the point here.

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