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  1. #21
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    • phoenix arizona seminar date
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    Andy Bolton, Donnie Thompson and Konstantin Konstantinovs used kettle bells swings and/or squats in their training as assistance exercises. Rogue makes bells as heavy as 203 lbs now. I don't think too many people could use a pair of those for endurance training.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyNUFC View Post
    Andy Bolton swears by the Kettlebell pullthrough. He claims it is the best assistance exercise for the posterior chain. Benni Magnussen also uses it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meshuggah View Post
    Andy Bolton uses Heavy Kettlebell Swings as an assistance exercise for the Deadlift. He has pulled 1,003 pounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by JNussbaum View Post
    Andy Bolton, Donnie Thompson and Konstantin Konstantinovs used kettle bells swings and/or squats in their training as assistance exercises. Rogue makes bells as heavy as 203 lbs now. I don't think too many people could use a pair of those for endurance training.
    Well, okay. If 4 of the strongest guys in the world do the same thing, I must be wrong about my physical analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita_McJones View Post
    A lot of guys like to say that strength is more important than conditioning or should be focused on first, but I don't agree.
    This is very important. A first-time poster doesn't agree.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Well, okay. If 4 of the strongest guys in the world do the same thing, I must be wrong about my physical analysis.
    They're using the KB swing to train the same qualities we use the power clean to train. The advantage of the swing over the clean is that it's much simpler technically.

    The disadvantages of kettle bells compared to barbells are the same as dumbbells- they are less versatile, more expensive, take up extra space, aren't as easily or readily incrementally loadable, and can't be used effectively for the major lifts.

    I see how the swings could be useful (easier in group settings or for people who's anthropomorphy makes racking a clean difficult) if you're willing to invest considerable money into the bells, especially for the bigger weights (which would be required for grown men).

    You're talking over $1/lb plus shipping for the cumbersome Rogue "Monster Kettlebells." Then, you have to navigate around the fact that they come in ~25 lb increments. I wonder why it is Rip recommends the barbell and power cleans again...?

  4. #24
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    Kinda like what Tyson said about how everyone has a plan until he hits them in the face, conditioning isn't important until your lungs can't keep up anymore.
    The accidental irony here is...beautiful.

    If you could magically summon data on '80's heavyweight boxers, in which category do you think Tyson deviated most from mean of top pros: a) conditioning or b) absolute force production & rate of force development?

  5. #25
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    Ladies and Gents,

    Did my workout today and I think it wasn't as bad I thougt it would be.

    Warm-up: Single KB at 63# 6 reps of 2 sets
    1. Swings 2. Cleans 3. Press

    Squat Press Deadlift
    135# 5x2 95# 5x2 155# 5x2
    185# 3x1 135# 3x1 225# 3x1
    245# 2x1 155# 2x1 295# 2x1
    315# 5x2 185# 5x2 335# 5x1

    Dips 3x8
    Assisted Chins 3x8

    Need to work on my form...but I am happy that my knees and back do not hurt like they did in a crossfit workout.

    -Anthony

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by APT79 View Post
    Ladies and Gents,

    Did my workout today and I think it wasn't as bad I thougt it would be.

    Warm-up: Single KB at 63# 6 reps of 2 sets
    1. Swings 2. Cleans 3. Press

    Squat Press Deadlift
    135# 5x2 95# 5x2 155# 5x2
    185# 3x1 135# 3x1 225# 3x1
    245# 2x1 155# 2x1 295# 2x1
    315# 5x2 185# 5x2 335# 5x1

    Dips 3x8
    Assisted Chins 3x8

    Need to work on my form...but I am happy that my knees and back do not hurt like they did in a crossfit workout.

    -Anthony
    Congrats. I found that the swings really helped me with my lower back. I used to suffer from spasms quite frequently but after 2 years of swings I'm happy to report none. I would have never had the confidence in my back to start training barbell if it weren't for the swings. 63# is nice. Most people (including me) start off too light.

  7. #27
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    This is a very weird thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by depictureboy View Post
    But I do know from experience that when I can't get the right feeling in my hamstrings or glutes during a deadlift or a lbbs a few rounds of heavy swings will help me find those muscles and reinforce the hip hinge.
    What on earth does this mean? Can you still complete a rep even with missing muscles?

    Whether you realise it or not, it sounds like you're looking for exercise, not training.

    I'd say the best way to feel and find everything is to get your deads and squats up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita_McJones View Post
    Are you gonna get a 2X bodyweight deadlift just from heavy one handed swings? No, but you'll be pretty damn strong with a very impressive level of conditioning if you meet the 48kg standards that were laid out in "Simple and Sinister".
    So if you won't even get a 2x bodyweight deadlift, what will you get from your 48kg standards? 1.5x? 1x?

    Even a 2x bodyweight deadlift isn't really anywhere close to "pretty damn strong" (unless maybe you weigh about 250kg), let alone anything below that.

    I'd suggest it's no surprise you have such a low standard for strength given your preference for random dice rolling exercise over training.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpinsen View Post
    You could even minimize that a bit by setting the weights down on a bench instead of the floor.
    Not if you're doing them with any sort of appreciable weight.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by APT79 View Post
    Does barbell strength training & kettlebell conditioning go together?

    Tried crossfit for a lil bit and just saw the 2014 Crossfit Games...my left knee was in pain bc I saw some poor form on the deadlifts and cleans. Concluded that I will see some new injuries if I continue with the program.

    Think going back to basics like in high school (powerlifting and Olympic lifting teams) will be a good start but I do like kettlebells too. Does anyone here mix it up with both BBs and KBs?
    Yes.

    I'd suggest to try what Andy Bolton uses: take a KB you can swing for, say, 20-30 reps, and perform 10 swings every minute for 10 minutes, at the end of your BB session. Do 11 on minute for 10 minutes next time, etc. When you get to 15-20 on minute, you need heavier KB.

    Front squat and press with one or two KBs is another option. An advantage over BB (and even DBs) is that KBs are more shoulders-friendly.

    Turkish getup is another movement that could be used for conditioning and besides does wonders to your shoulders health.

  10. #30
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    starting strength nutrition camp
    I gave swings a good long try, and found that they just caused too much hamstring soreness when combined with frequent squats and deadlifts. But I'm old-ish and don't recover well. I'd rather save my recovery budget for more important lifts.

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