Senior Training

[Mark E. Hurling]

We have a few more obstacles than running does. I'm not sure that running had the same stigma that heavy barbell training does.

It's hard to imagine today isn't it? But if you weren't in basic training or under strict supervision from an athletic coach having you run around the track for a sport, if you went out jogging in shorts and a T-shirt in the 60's and even the early 70's, you were considered at least slightly odd or completely around the bend. I kept it up in college as a conditioning adjunct for the judo I was competing in and even there I would have other students ask what it was I was doing and why if I had to stop at a crosswalk waiting for vehicles to pass through.

Even though jogging is ubiquitous now, it wasn't always so. In fact, having a doctor tell you to take a walk on a regular basis was unheard of.

Given that I saw, witnessed, and was part of that sea change, I have hopes of another such change happening in my lifetime. I know I'll do what I can to see it happen.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I'm a doctor. There is no authority granted with an M.D. that makes you an expert on fitness,exercise, or strength training. You have to study, learn, and apply the knowledge gained. There was no meaningful teaching on any of this stuff, at least in my school (med 1985-1989). I know exercise science is full of BS studies but guess what, BS studies get published every month in hundreds of medical journals across every specialty. Asking most doctors advice on exercise or training is about as useful as asking them how to fix the transmission on your car. When I am asked and I start in on squats and dead lifts, this is so far removed from anything they have read, heard, or experienced that it usually goes in one ear and out the other. It is frustrating. Starting Strength is in my office and I've recommended many to purchase, read and we'll talk. So far, not one response. Seriously thinking about putting my squat rack, bar, and plates in the waiting room.

This is well understood by those of us in practice in S&C, but I assure you that to my clients "The Doctors" word might as well be carried off the mountain carved in stone tablets.

And despite the self confessed ignorance on the subject a large portion of them don't hesitate to give advice in the area.

[I_iz_a_fatass]

Given that I saw, witnessed, and was part of that sea change, I have hopes of another such change happening in my lifetime. I know I'll do what I can to see it happen.

For what it's worth, I didn't get resistance to the idea to resume weight training after either surgery. The caveats I got were "so long as you're protecting your sternum" (post heart surgery) and "if it hurts, stop" (after hernia repair).

I've never had a doc tell me m lifting was bad for me in any way, shape, or form. A lot of uninformed people around me, yes, but never an MD.

[Brodie Butland]

It may not be as gloomy an outlook as you think. I can remember the pre-Ken Cooper days when there was no firm measure or support from doctors and others for some quantification of aerobic fitness for the general public. But it started slow in the late 60's after I bought his first book when it came out in paperback my senior year in high school. Then jogging took the US by storm in an even bigger wave than crossfit has. The fact that SS in general and you in particular have Sully on board with this could well trigger a greater response in the general public and hopefully in the medical community than you might think possible just now.

There is a terrific book called "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" (written by Thomas Kuhn, a nuclear physicist), which argues that science is not a gradual progression of adding things on top of new things, but rather entire upendings of previous worldviews and substituting them for others--what Kuhn refers to as a "paradigm shift" (he created the phrase). One of his theses is that there are often times of conflict where older scientists hold on to one view, new scientists have a new view, and the new view ultimately prevails after the old guard dies off.

I personally think Kuhn's insight is right on the money, and not just for things like physics, chemistry, and astronomy, but the medical profession as well. Right now the medical profession is largely against heavy barbell training...but I think we're starting to see cracks in the foundation, and I suspect that newer doctors are much more on board with weight training than older generations. When I went to see an ortho after tearing a hamstring during deadlifting, he didn't even flinch when I told him the cause...the hack even told me to feel free to go back to heavy lifting, but take smaller jumps so I could monitor how things were going! Compare that to someone I saw who was 30 years older, who told me I have too much muscle for my bone structure. Not saying that his is representative of the entire medical profession...but we don't need the entire medical community to come on board, we just need a critical mass of vocal proponents.

Seriously thinking about putting my squat rack, bar, and plates in the waiting room.

Speaking as a patient, this would be a lot more fun than sitting on butcher paper without any pants on for ten minutes.

[Mark E. Hurling]

There is a terrific book called "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" (written by Thomas Kuhn, a nuclear physicist), which argues that science is not a gradual progression of adding things on top of new things, but rather entire upendings of previous worldviews and substituting them for others--what Kuhn refers to as a "paradigm shift" (he created the phrase). One of his theses is that there are often times of conflict where older scientists hold on to one view, new scientists have a new view, and the new view ultimately prevails after the old guard dies off.

There were several books in the 80's that talked about this, albeit in a business sense rather than scientific. Peter Drucker in Innovation and Entrepeneurship described a 30 year lag cycle from an idea or product's inception to it's first gradual and then rapidly proliferating acceptance. Among others, he used the rise of reading spectacles in Europe during the Middle Ages. That 30 year lag cycle probably emulates the generational resistance "die-off" of the old guard.

Besides running, I've seen a huge change in attitudes about lifting in not only the medical field but also sports and coaching. In high school, 64-68 for me, there was NO push to even go find the corner closet on the mezzanine of the basketball auditorium where maybe 200 lbs. of a York exercise set rusted away. No bench and no squat rack either. The coaches didn't actively keep anyone (not that I ever saw anyone else in that dusty room) out of the "weight room" but they never mentioned it and didn't encourage it. When I got to a Division II university, the "weight room" wasn't much better or bigger, and students only got a few hours of access a few days a week when the athletes weren't in it. No squat racks there either as I recall, but they did have a bench and a lat pulldown.

And the docs of the day? Forget it. That started to change and accelerate in the 80's with the rise of movies like Pumping Iron with the docs. My current GP is very interested in my lifting and has even posteed some of my lifting on his waitng room wall after he insisted on photos. But it still isn't all smooth sailing as Andy Baker describes. A trip for a pre-retirement tire kicking session with a cardiologist showed me just how benighted some specialists in medicine can still be. He had no concept and didn't want to hear about how I can drive up my heart rate 140+ bpm or 90% of maximum heart rate in sustained intervals during heavy sessions of squats and deadlifts as well as staying at 80%+ of MHR for 20-30 minutes during a lifting session. For him, I was overweight at 5'11" 258 lbs. and needed to walk, jog, or bike some more. He also wasn't interested in how I routinely tested at 40+ VO2 Max on HR monitored equipment. He pissed me off so much, the next day I got on some cardio equipment at my gym and tested out at a 40 VO2 Max.

Bottom line? It's much better now than 30-40 years ago and still improving. But there are still some docs around who need to pull their heads out of their hindquarters.

[Dr.T]

I am a doc and I have SS Hardcover in my waiting room and consult room.

Easy on the docs. There is a high % of physician boneheads, to be sure, but probably not as high as personal trainers, attorneys, GCs, and ...let's just say other medical and quasi-medical practitioners.

[Brodie Butland]

Easy on the docs. There is a high % of physician boneheads, to be sure, but probably not as high as personal trainers, attorneys, GCs, and ...let's just say other medical and quasi-medical practitioners.

One of my favorite excerpts from a courtroom transcript:

Q: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a
pulse?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for blood pressure?
A: No.
Q: Did you check for breathing?
A: No.
Q: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you
began the autopsy?
A: No.
Q: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
A: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
Q: But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless?
A: It is possible that he could have been alive and practicing
law somewhere.

[carson]

I'm thankful that we met Sully when we did and that he agreed to train us. We have had the privilege of editing and commenting on his portion of their book. God bless them both and I too look forward to its publication.

[Miro]

One of my favorite excerpts from a courtroom transcript:

This sounds familiar. Didn't the doctor get sued for that and paid for it with pride?

Either way, it's a priceless exchange.

[vanslix]

This is well understood by those of us in practice in S&C, but I assure you that to my clients "The Doctors" word might as well be carried off the mountain carved in stone tablets.

And despite the self confessed ignorance on the subject a large portion of them don't hesitate to give advice in the area.

Sadly, this is all too true. We are taught to have all the answers. To say "I don't know" or "I'm ignorant on that subject" is selected against from the beginning. Those that may have the humility tend to have it beaten out of them. I do think successive generations will be better, though, or I hope. Many lift or do that stupid fit cross thing.