Cardiovascular Gains On SS?

[rm_sidell]

Mark, do you believe that for a complete novice that increases in cardiovascular endurance can be measured after -let's say- 4 to 6 months on the program? I've been listening to other exercise professionals discuss why it may be more important to have better aerobic fitness levels than anaerobic for sports because of the body's natural inclination to fatigue when all energy is used anaerobically and the aerobic system takes over predominately after roughly 60-75 sec. of one bout of intense work. Do you believe that cardiovascular gains can be made on your program that can transfer to the court, field, or boxing ring?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Mark, do you believe that for a complete novice that increases in cardiovascular endurance can be measured after -let's say- 4 to 6 months on the program?

Studies have consistently shown that VO2 max increases slightly on a badly-designed resistance training program.

I've been listening to other exercise professionals discuss why it may be more important to have better aerobic fitness levels than anaerobic for sports because of the body's natural inclination to fatigue when all energy is used anaerobically and the aerobic system takes over predominately after roughly 60-75 sec. of one bout of intense work.

The purpose of strength training is to facilitate an increase in force production. Any athlete who relies on his strength program for aerobic conditioning is doing a badly-designed strength program.

Do you believe that cardiovascular gains can be made on your program that can transfer to the court, field, or boxing ring?

Why must cardiovascular gains be obtained in the weight room? Are you not practicing your sport on the court, field, or in the ring? Is the sport an aerobic energy system stress? If it is, recovery from that stress produces adaptation. If it's not a stress, why is it important?

[Jonathon Sullivan]

I've been listening to other exercise professionals discuss why it may be more important to have better aerobic fitness levels than anaerobic for sports because of the body's natural inclination to fatigue when all energy is used anaerobically and the aerobic system takes over predominately after roughly 60-75 sec. of one bout of intense work

Here's a question: Let's say you go and do a set of heavy squats or presses. It takes approximately 45 seconds. During that 45 seconds, you are using two anaerobic systems, predominantly the phosphagen system, with some anaerobic glycolysis by the end of the set. The phosphagen system is now largely depleted, and you've tapped moderately into glycolysis as well.

So: how in the hell could you possibly do another set of presses 4-6 minutes from now? Heavy presses are deeply anaerobic. But now, according to "exercise professionals" you've been talking to, all you've got is your aerobic system "predominately." You can feel this, because you're short of breath.

And yet, a few minutes from now, you will do another set, and you won't do it under aerobic power.

Similar scenario: You pump out a wingate or a 60-second sprint. You begin in the phosphagen system, tap it out, go to glycolysis, tap it out, accumulate muscle proton and lactate, and flame out. Bend over. Huff and puff. Possibly vomit. Your anaerobic systems are completely depleted.

And yet, a minutes from now, you will do the exact same thing again, and you won't do it under aerobic power.

Gymnastic routine. Snatch doubles. Boxing bout. Wrestling bout. 400m dash. Football scrimmage. Etc. All are performed more-or-less at the anaerobic end of the spectrum, and all can be repeated after a few minutes of rest.

How can this be so? And what are the implications of this incredibly mysterious phenomenon for training? What are the implications for "metabolic conditioning?" And finally, since all of these activities are performed at the anaerobic end of the spectrum, why in the Holy Purple Fuck would any "exercise professional" think that aerobic training would prepare an athlete for optimum performance in such activities?

[rm_sidell]

Why must cardiovascular gains be obtained in the weight room? Are you not practicing your sport on the court, field, or in the ring? Is the sport an aerobic energy system stress? If it is, recovery from that stress produces adaptation. If it's not a stress, why is it important?

This is a fair point, but really, how many sports don't stress one's cardiovascular capacities?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Excellent point. All of them do, a little. But most of them don't depend on it for performance, so it is 1. not the limiting factor, as Sully just explained, and 2. most of them that do depend on CV for performance stress it enough that it is sufficiently developed by practicing the sport.

[MBasic]

Studies have consistently shown that VO2 max increases slightly on a badly-designed resistance training program.

Best post/quote I've read all week . . . funny (but so true) way to put it.

[OBoile]

Excellent point. All of them do, a little. But most of them don't depend on it for performance, so it is 1. not the limiting factor, as Sully just explained, and 2. most of them that do depend on CV for performance stress it enough that it is sufficiently developed by practicing the sport.

I disagree with both of these points. With the exception of baseball, pretty much every major sport requires some dedicated aerobic work outside of just playing the game in order to maximize performance. "Just playing the game" is exercising not training.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I disagree with both of these points.

I don't care.

[CJ Gotcher]

I disagree with both of these points. With the exception of baseball, pretty much every major sport requires some dedicated aerobic work outside of just playing the game in order to maximize performance. "Just playing the game" is exercising not training.

You've made a 'hard claim' here, so all I need to do is find one high-level 'major sport' team that doesn't participate in aerobic training outside of the skills and drills of a practice session to disprove your point. Are you so well informed about college/professional athletics that you're confident making that claim?

What are you defining as 'aerobic?' ~400m is the distance where a maximal effort run becomes, on average, predominantly aerobic (assuming adequate rest to maintain speed). If a hockey or football team does hard wind sprints (20m down and back) with 40 sec rests between sprints, are they primarily training their aerobic or anaerobic energy systems?

[Jonathon Sullivan]

I disagree with both of these points. With the exception of baseball, pretty much every major sport requires some dedicated aerobic work outside of just playing the game in order to maximize performance. "Just playing the game" is exercising not training.

Olympic weightlifting : major sport : no dedicated aerobic training required.



But while we're at it, where's the DATA that shows that athletes (with the exception of baseball players and aerobic endurance athletes), "require some dedicated aerobic work" (by which I'm guessing you mean LSD)? I would be interested to see it. Srsly.