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Thread: Driving up strength increases without increasing bodyweight

  1. #1
    JudoATunez Guest

    Default Driving up strength increases without increasing bodyweight

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    Dear coach Rippetoe,

    It pains me to ask this question, because you have already covered this topic several times, and you discussed it in PPST.
    Strength increase is related to an increase in muscle mass. The fact that the fastest way to increase in muscle mass is to produce an increase in strength confirms this. Strength training changes the architecture of our system, at several levels, and therefore, it is usually dependent on an increase in bodyweight. Nevertheless, history has shown that one can be very strong, maintaining bodyweight. There are very strong weightlifters (at least, relative to their BW) in the lower weight classes.

    I would assume that the training of these athletes would follow similiar principles to that of an heavyweight athlete, therefore, it's diet that controls BW, and not training. However, because these athletes have diet limitations, their recovery is compromised, and they might not be able to handle the same volume.

    For an athlete who has interest in increasing his relative strength, how would his training be like?

    Thanks coach

  2. #2
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    And since I have discussed it before, it pains me to have to discuss it again. Go up a weight class.

  3. #3
    JudoATunez Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And since I have discussed it before, it pains me to have to discuss it again. Go up a weight class.
    You're right, I did not want to waste your time in any way want to waste your time, coach. Due to my height, my coach keeps on telling me I won't be competitve in the upper weight class, and that I shouldn't squat, as he tells me I am being ''undisciplined''. As I won't stop training, because strength training has been a key for improving my judo, I wanted to better understand how could I program to allow me to keep bodyweight the same, at least for a while...

    I don't want to be short sighted, sir. I just wanted to be a good competitor.

  4. #4
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    The best people in the lower weight categories will be of shorter height. At some point they will pretty much reach their maximum genetic potential when it comes to the amount of muscle mass at a certain bodyfat %age. They would only be able to gain more weight (and more strength) if they would allow the accumulation of quite a bit more fat as well. But by doing this they would have to compete in the next weight category against slightly taller guys with significantly better muscle to fat ratio and muscle is what drives the bar.

    The point is that these top athletes got there by getting stronger by actually increasing bodyweight. Once they reach their ideal weight class (again: based on height), they pretty much stagnate anyway. They improve their lifts by just a few pounds over the years through mainly perfecting their technique and only very little increase in pure force production.

    One more thing is the diet part. Most (if not all?) weightlifters don't stay at the same bodyweight the whole year over. They try to gain as much muscle and strength as possible and it is during the competition preparation that they will diet down in order to be just light enough to fit their weight class.

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    Judo, you're a good kid. I'm sorry about your coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deeprooted View Post

    One more thing is the diet part. Most (if not all?) weightlifters don't stay at the same bodyweight the whole year over. They try to gain as much muscle and strength as possible and it is during the competition preparation that they will diet down in order to be just light enough to fit their weight class.
    I'm not getting this point. If a lifter is gaining muscle which translates to increase in body weight, what exactly will they be losing by dieting down? Unless your point is they have held onto body fat?

    Second point, why would a competitor chose to stagnate within a weight class vs. moving up in a class which will give them more room for strength growth?

    I absolutely hate cutting to make weight. I prefer to be gaining strength and weight as I near a meet and leave a few lbs. as a cushion. At some point I will have to move up in class. If that happens I would be very pleased, since it would mean I am getting stronger and bigger (not fat).

    right now I compete in the 74/164 class. I currently weigh 154, I will grow into about 162 and leave a few lbs. as a cushion. I want to be as strong as I can be come meet time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lou t View Post
    Second point, why would a competitor chose to stagnate within a weight class vs. moving up in a class which will give them more room for strength growth?
    Most people would rather take 1st in the 105kg class than 3rd at 120kg. They might be stronger at 120, but not relative to the people around them.

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    And some people who place 3rd in the 105s might place 1st in the 120s due to better leverage and muscle mass. Depending on his height, he might very well need to move up a weight class or 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Herbison View Post
    Most people would rather take 1st in the 105kg class than 3rd at 120kg. They might be stronger at 120, but not relative to the people around them.


    Sorry man, but if I place first at 105, and I'm stagnate there, I'd take 3rd in a stronger group with the potential of strenght gains that may get me to 1st at 120.
    I guess I'm an oddity

  10. #10
    JudoATunez Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Judo, you're a good kid. I'm sorry about your coach.
    It's sad to hear a person in which you trust tell you that you don't have genetics to go any further, in spite all your efforts. At the same time, It's hard for me to ''step over'' kind and honest advice, such has that which you have given to me, about the development of an athlete. I don't forget what I have learned with your books, and the experiences shared here.

    Nevertheless, I am just trying to meet the demands of the sport. And in that case, if there is a good way to keep improving relative strength, I have no doubt that this is the place where I can find the best answer, as YOU know how to make people strong.

    Thank you for all your help, coach

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