Animosity among lifters

[Jeff Leonard]

Coach,

I have searched for any similar questions that I have on this forum, but I can't find anything, so here goes. Why is there such animosity, or downright nastiness between the various strength or lifting communities? Since I started to lift again about 8 months ago I have researched and read a ton of material, and it seems that everybody hates everybody else.

An example is that I was looking up some info on Cleans, and I came across a Jon North interview. I know this guy can be kind of brash, but he said of the low bar squat that it was the "cancer" of weightlifting and should be banned. Now I realize maybe he was referring to the low bar as it relates to Oly lifting, but really, the cancer of weightlifting?

For me, I am just trying to get info on how to lift heavy stuff off the floor, and how to lift heavy stuff over my head. The SS model works great for me, and maybe I am to much of a newbie to criticize someone else, but I really don't care if someone is into Crossfit, or Olympic lifting, or bodybuilding and so on. So why does there have to be such a my way or the highway attitude among the various styles of lifting?

Thanks

[Mark Rippetoe]

Jon North says this because he is stupid and uninformed. I hate him.

[Goatamon]

Jon North is an appalling jackass. A lifter on another forum shared a story about North spitting on his (the story tellers) bar in the warm up room, and after the meet proceeding to wander around the hotel lobby shirtless and drunk off his ass, followed by puking into a sink. This on top of the fact that he conducts himself like a coked up twelve year old in general.

As for animosity (apart from the kind of animosity I just showed), seems to me that it's the same thing as in video game circles: fanboyism. People develop such a loyalty towards their chosen pastime that they see others as enemies. "Us vs. Them" and so on.

I've also got a sneaky suspicion that, just like in video game circles, most of the obnoxious twat sandwiches who talk shit about other sports are probably 14 years old.

[Simon Rest]

Didn't Jon North also try to petition the President to allow slamming the bar down in competition?

[MBasic]

An example is that I was looking up some info on Cleans, and I came across a Jon North interview. I know this guy can be kind of brash, but he said of the low bar squat that it was the "cancer" of weightlifting and should be banned. Now I realize maybe he was referring to the low bar as it relates to Oly lifting, but really, the cancer of weightlifting?

Just FYI, "Weightlifting" IS the term Oly lifting. (sort of, think Football and Futbol, sort of)
Powerlifting is squat,dead, bench. Term "weightlifting"=Snatch and Clean . . . so that's what he means.
Unless he said/meant weightTRAINING, or something like that.

That being said, John North is a cancer for American Weightlifting.
Most people I've run into in that world thinks he's an idiot / blowhard.

Rip, please move this to end and pieces so we can rail on Jon North continuously without moderation.

[Scaldrew]

So why does there have to be such a my way or the highway attitude among the various styles of lifting?

To me, it's not that my preferred method of training is different from, say, a crossfitter's method of "training". I couldn't care less if bodybuilders don't touch their chest on every rep on the bench or if weightlifters slam the low bar squat as being inferior; that's on them. The reason I hate crossfit is because people are being encouraged to lift heavier weights than they can handle with proper form. Impressionable minds are being taught to lift poorly and that "form doesn't matter if it's PR" which is an arguable point and I'd agree perfection isn't reasonable to request from a 1RM attempt, but it's often not even close to perfection.

I'm also angry that crossfit is big and popular enough to have people excuse this criticism with "Well, what do you know about it? Bla bla crossfit athletes bla bla Glassman bla bla". It's cultivating poor habits in training that I'm not ok with. AND people are making money off enabling this type of behaviour. It's disgusting is what it is.

To make it contentious, I'd say that many big names pick fights-intentionally or otherwise-because of what Rip said (

stupid and uninformed

) and because people forget that ideas are just ideas. It's easy to forget that everyone has their own ideas and to incessantly cling to your own and refuse to accept criticism in any form. Couple that with the fact that not everybody cares about being able to read on different levels and you've got yourself a delicious slice of Internet drama.

[d12]

I've found (in my very short time lifting) that people tend to hate low bar squat because they cannot coach it.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I've also got a sneaky suspicion that, just like in video game circles, most of the obnoxious twat sandwiches who talk shit about other sports are probably 14 years old.

Yeah, there's that.

Didn't Jon North also try to petition the President to allow slamming the bar down in competition?

Nothing would surprise me about North and Obama.

Just FYI, "Weightlifting" IS the term Oly lifting. (sort of, think Football and Futbol, sort of)
Powerlifting is squat,dead, bench. Term "weightlifting"=Snatch and Clean . . . so that's what he means.
Unless he said/meant weightTRAINING, or something like that.

Seems like The Old Coach should know that.

That being said, John North is a cancer for American Weightlifting.
Most people I've run into in that world thinks he's an idiot / blowhard.

As we'll see later, the patient is dying.

Rip, please move this to end and pieces so we can rail on Jon North continuously without moderation.

Later.

I'm also angry that crossfit is big and popular enough to have people excuse this criticism with "Well, what do you know about it? Bla bla crossfit athletes bla bla Glassman bla bla". It's cultivating poor habits in training that I'm not ok with. AND people are making money off enabling this type of behaviour.

The most distasteful problem with CF is the Instant Expertise is so often provides to 25-year-old shoe salesmen. That knowing nod of agreement, the deep understanding that comes from looking at videos on the internet.

To make it contentious, I'd say that many big names pick fights-intentionally or otherwise-because of what Rip said ( ) and because people forget that ideas are just ideas. It's easy to forget that everyone has their own ideas and to incessantly cling to your own and refuse to accept criticism in any form. Couple that with the fact that not everybody cares about being able to read on different levels and you've got yourself a delicious slice of Internet drama.

And a lot of website traffic.

C. His hair is pretty

Have you seen my hair? Have you taken the time to really look at my hair?

I've found (in my very short time lifting) that people tend to hate low bar squat because they cannot coach it.

Post Of The Week. Perfect existential clarity.

[Jeff Leonard]

Just FYI, "Weightlifting" IS the term Oly lifting. (sort of, think Football and Futbol, sort of)
Powerlifting is squat,dead, bench. Term "weightlifting"=Snatch and Clean . . . so that's what he means.
Unless he said/meant weightTRAINING, or something like that.

That being said, John North is a cancer for American Weightlifting.
Most people I've run into in that world thinks he's an idiot / blowhard.

Rip, please move this to end and pieces so we can rail on Jon North continuously without moderation.

This is kind of what I mean, although you showed no signs of being an ass clown with your response (which I appreciate), but I am not really concerned with what is Oly, Weightlifting, Power lifting etc. I am not interested in ever competing (maybe just a little), just trying to get stronger and lift heavy stuff.

And Rip, your right - that is a glorious head of lettuce you have there!

[JoshGayou]

An additional point that I haven't seen touched on here is that a lot of people pushing a product or brand attempt to create the illusion or uniqueness or superiority in their product by shit talking the competition. I have some limited experience here that I think is applicable to a small degree. I used to run a little side-thing making custom guitars, mostly out of cigar boxes but sometimes traditional solid bodies. I didn't make any money out of it; I just liked making them. The community of people making instruments out of cigar boxes is rather small, so you see a lot of interaction and in-fighting between what I'll refer to as "characters". A bunch of egos would get involved and people were trying to assign more value to their work than others because they were, in the end, trying to sell a product in which the worth is difficult to quantify. This difficulty is found in the fact that assigning value to a guitar nearly impossible outside of discussing aspects of the instrument's technical execution. All the crap they talk about like "tone", "body", "mojo", and the "voice" of the instrument is a bunch of nebulous shit that can't be substantiated or measured. So the guys who couldn't stand on the body of their work ended up shit talking the competition.

Watching all the back in forth in the fitness industry, I'm seeing a lot of parallels. The desired outcome of any fitness or training program has been so confused by the fact that this is effectively a snake oil industry figure-headed by drugged out freaks that the concept of a meaningful goal or standard has been lost in all the noise. The salespeople are challenged by the fact that really hard work and consistency tend to be the limiting factors and that most people don't actually want to do that stuff, so they push this industry's version of exotic tone woods and secret pickup winding alchemy: ideas like muscle confusion, paleo diets, diet pills, and so on. And, because each new fad always fails to deliver any meaningful result, attention is diverted in the time honored tradition of shit talking and hyperbole.

That's what I've seen, anyway.