Bar Path and Start Position

[Mark Rippetoe]

A Comparison of Two Start Positions v1

[JudoATunez]

Coach, it seems that the low-hips starting position drifts the bar forward, forcing the lifter to have to ''squat-clean'' the weight in order to be able to rack it at the shoulders.
Is this so the case? My inexperienced eye can't tell

[Mark Rippetoe]

Of course your inexperienced eye can tell, Judo. You're a very polite kid.

[Walker]

Even though I've been following this discussion for awhile, I was shocked to see just how much higher John was able to catch the bar. It's impressive what happens when almost all the lifter's force contributes to vertical acceleration.

[shib]

Coach, during the traditional start position it appears that John has to travel quite a bit farther back during the jump when catching the bar than the SS model (watching from the lateral view at 3:30 and onward).

One of the main arguments I see for the traditional start position is that it allows for the lifter to get under the bar more effectively. Is there a mechanism that makes this somehow possible if the traditional start position drives the lifter further back than the SS position?

I don't have enough experience to nitpick John's form (which looks good as far as I can tell) on either style so it could be a form discrepancy.

[JudoATunez]

I've been reading the Deadlift Chapter to try to understand pulling mechanics better. There's some discussion going on in the board regarding the set-up position for the olympic lifts, and the effects it has on bar path, etc.

The low-hips position displaces the bar horizontally, and in doing so, the lifter has now to produce extra effort to correct the bar path, despite the fact that this effort represents no work done against gravity.

I appreciate the work you gentleman go through to offer the best coaching experience possible! I hope the arguments held here, and dicussion of ideas keeps on breeding good results

[MBasic]

VIDEO:
. . .watch in full screen, the pink pinpoints are faint. Bar pin points were placed every two frames.


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John is a SSC.
Probably embraces the SS style and uses it to the Nth degree.
So I'm sure he's can't "realize the full potential" for the other style. . . .so of course he can pull it higher.
He's more adept with the SS style. John C&J'd 107 kg (235#) at a IWF Masters Meet last year? this is only 185# ( or 80kg/177# )? . . . pfff! power clean weight for him.

In both lifts, but more so the TRAD style (that's not even traditional really, but I'll use that moniker) , it would appear he doesn't extend his legs/knee after the DKB (when he's is the "power posisiton") . . . he just raises the bar by using his back/torso. He needs to extend his legs and move the bar UP instead of out (TRAD style). Its hard to see with his pants.
But he just gets the bar above his knee a little . . . he rocks backwards while keeping his knees at the same angle during the period (not extending them),
thus sending the bar way out.

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Bar paths are comical . . .I'd say he needs to work out the bugs of humping the bar out into space in front of him . . .the TRAD style here comes up straighter in the first pull, so he should go with that in future because straighter is more efficient. His lifts will go up no doubt.
I've noticed on most SS style lifters (who TRY and pull with the bar really close) the bar path bubbles out away from the lifter.
Why is this Mark? (no shit serious question, not trolling)
In R.A. Roman's text is talks about it: pics in the text show a pretty straight bar path, but bar bows out a tad. . . they (USSR) could see this FAIRLY STRAIGHTISH bar path (as compared to 'S' curve thing), but they obviously MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION NOT to use this style/set-up. Why do you think that is? (no shit serious question for you or John P.)

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Horizontal displacement is about the same TRAD to SS/EXP.
But I'll agree there's a sharp right turn in the TRAD, but that's on the lifter really.

Also, the bar on the right is further away from the camera or something
There is more space under the green plate to the bottom of the screen. . . its further away I think.
That would make things look worse in some ways but better is others for the SS style.
But point is, who know what other inconsistencies you have here.

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[quad]

I don't understand why he has to squat so deep in the wrong starting position. He had pulled the bar much higher than the position he racked it in. It looks artificial.

[MBasic]

Coach, it seems that the low-hips starting position drifts the bar forward,

Total Horizontal Displacement is about the same actually.

[tertius]

In a way, his surprised expression at the height of that pull is as informative as anything else.E

Excellent demonstration of the practical side of this discussion.