ATG Squatting

[Mark Rippetoe]

Okay, someone needs to explain to me how weak hip flexors are involved in this. How is it that resisting the load on a heavy bar as you perform an eccentric contraction down to the bottom of your squat involves active hip flexion? Yes, the hips and knees are coming into the position of flexion, but do you think you are actually pulling 405 down into the bottom with your hip flexors? I thought the weight pushed you down. Or is there some arcane, esoteric aspect of biomechanics that eludes me here? I see these comments occasionally, and it appears to me that we are using our hip extensors rather thoroughly when we squat, and that the hip flexor muscles (flexion in this case being the proximal function of these muscles, the rectus femoris, sartorius, and tensor fascia latae) are working distally to resist knee flexion, and then to actively extend the knee.

But I could be wrong.

As for fixing butt wink, it usually involves stretching out tight hamstrings, the primary cause of a lack of hip extension ROM. And tightness in the lower back could mean several things, from a lack of flexibility in either flexion or extension to a persistent feeling of "pump" upon initiation of work.

[p-funk]

I could be giving you an explanation to a different argument, but I think what he is trying to say is that the posterior pelvic tilt is happening due to weak hip flexors not being able to effectively hold the pelvis in a neutral position, hence the poterior tilt (active insuficiency I believe is the term I am looking for?). So, overly tight hip flexors and you have a position of lordosis (or excessive arch) and weak hip flexors and you get that posterior tilt.

But, it could just be insuficiency of the back muscles not being able to maintain the proper arch as well, as they work synergistically with the hip flexors.

However, when squatting down to that depth, it is tough to find a person who doesn't have any posterior tilt. Everyone seems to get some. I think if you are strong in that ROM, then you are strong in that ROM and if it doesn't hurt, then it probably isn't a problem, as you have developed enough strength to go through that ROM.

patrick

[VikingMan]

but do you think you are actually pulling 405 down into the bottom with your hip flexors?

Certainly not. But, hip flexors do connect from the top of the femur to the inside of the lower back, right? As you approach the bottom of the squat and the hamstrings are getting tighter, engaging the hip flexors at that point could help keep the arch, right? Maybe I'm wrong.

And I've stretched my hamstrings till I'm blue in the face and that hasn't helped the butt wink issue. Am I simply stretching wrong?

And tightness in the lower back could mean several things, from a lack of flexibility in either flexion or extension to a persistent feeling of "pump" upon initiation of work.

Totally NOT the kind of tightness I'm talking about. I mean, a week after I squat, my lower back feels tight. Not, "pumped because I just did a set of 50 reps of 45 degree hyper extenions" tight, but, "something's not quite right" tight. Know the kind of tightness I'm talking about?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have always been of the opinion that the erector spinae were the primary muscle group involved in keeping the lumbar spine erect (and extended). Trying to actively pull the lumbar into extension with the psoas at the bottom of a squat seems a rather inefficient way of doing what should have been done at the top of the descent, and what will stay there just fine if the hamstrings are sufficiently extensible and the knees are out of the way. This last point may very well be your problem -- knees out frees up depth by taking the thigh contact away from the lower trunk as the bottom is approached. An active shoving-out of the knees may fix butt-wink better than anything else you've tried. Give it a shot.