What is strength?
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Is the long-femured trainee stronger?
If a trainee has extremely long femurs (in relation to his tibias) and a short torso is he in any way at a disadvantage in the squat? When squatting with textbook form, will he use different muscles to a different degree then a long torso/short femur lifter? Will the squat develop the long firmer guy's lower back more? Hamstrings, quads, etc?
Say, both lifters have a 365x5 max squat (both with perfect form) is the longer femur lifter possibly stronger because he is at some sort of mechanical disadvantage?
TMPHBITEU
What is strength?
Member
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if both trainees have the same 1 RM then they are equal in strength regardless of anatomical differences in limb length or joint angles. If they both have a 365x5 mac squat, then they both produce the same amount of force to move the weight through space. Unless one of them is in an alternate universe where his 365 lbs squat weighs less than the other trainees 365 lbs squat.
This is just wild speculation though.
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The ability to produce force on an external resistance.Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
I think in OP's hypothetical situation, if the long-femured trainee has a longer range of motion in the squat, he or she is only doing more work, and not necessarily stronger than the shorter-femured trainee.
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The ability to activate the glutes across functional non-specific modalities. Duh.
Member
Quotes by you:
"There is only one type of strength: the force of contraction which the muscles exert against the bones. Skeletal components in motion apply force using the hands and feet against objects in the environment. Greater strength simply means a higher level of force production, and greater strength increases an athlete’s ability to effectively interact with the environment during competition. So it’s very simple, really: greater strength is the ability to move a heavier weight, since strength is the production of force."
"There is only one kind of strength – the kind your muscles generate when they contract against your bones, a system of levers that interacts with the resistance encountered in your environment."
I understand that ultimately "strength is the ability to apply force to an external resistance," but I'm wondering if having a certain anthropometry can make it more difficult to take full advantage of all your musculature in the squat. Maybe certain trainees are better able to make certain muscles contract against certain bones because of the position the exercise puts them in.
For instance, does the nature of the barbell back squat allow the short-femur/long torso lifter to have better access to his quads...to really dig into them? Maybe he has to rely less on isometric lower-back strength? Do factors like these allow the short-femur/long torso lifter to make faster progression on the squat and/or ultimately have a higher potential to squat heavier weights.
In other words, are some guys "built" to squat?
TMPHBITEU
Of course it's easier for shorter guys to squat than taller guys. They don't have as much work to do to cover the ROM of the exercise with the weight. Other advantages can obviously be predicted. This has been discussed at length. Am I missing a new permutation of the question?
✓ Member
Sweet. Finally I get paybacks for not getting picked first in high school basketball.
...then again...I do have short tibias and long femurs (and a long torso) for my height. Damn. No free lunch.
Member
By Rip´s quote, we can clearly see that there is not only one type of strength: There at least is internal force production by the muscles - and external force production (internal torques, external torques). And some factors in between that influence that relationship.
So the answer to your question who the stronger squatter is depends on what youre interested in: how much force his mucles produce or what weight he ultimately moves. Most of the time, we think of the latter and you clearly do so in competitions (would be a bit odd to measure limb lengths before stepping onto the platform).
Even measuring limb lengths wouldnt be enough: A much more powerful factor than limb lengths (which most of the time only give a difference in single digits %) is tendon insertion points that can make a differnence of up to one third of different external at the same internal force.
Short: The longer-femur-lifter creates more muscle force all other things being equal.
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