Optimizing eating for SS progression

[TommyGun]

You didn't ask, but my experience with baseball players is they are soft prissy primadonnas that fear hard work and worry about silly things like "functional training" and "muscle imbalances." They like to do trapbar deads that entail lifting a questionably light weight and then dropping it; laying on boards across the safety bars of racks and doing rows as fast they can while banging the 11 pound curl bar against the plank; throwing with a band attached to a static object, or throwing with a 5 pound medicine ball with a band on their legs. Rarely do they squat and if they do, it is front squats with a light weight that is typically 3-4 inches high. Don't be like them. Stop the silliness. Get strong.

This is a fair generalization. In my humble experience the least likely to get under the bar at all let alone to depth is basketball players, closely followed by baseball players. Hockey players and wrestlers seem to be the most willing to train hard followed by some football players. Not mentioned and not worth discussing: soccer players. I remain disappointed but not surprised that lacrosse players do not generally get under the bar.

[Bluehands]

Fair or not, it's a generalization and a waste of time in my opinion. Taking a whack at a particular group of athletes is ridiculous. I'm not a "baseball player". I stopped playing when I was fifteen and started up again around age 30 but to say that baseball players in general don't want to work hard is ridiculous.

I think a better point is talking about the way money has impacted all of these sports and a particular group of athlete's training habits. When a baseball club has invested xxx hundred million dollars into a player (especially a pitcher), they are less likely to allow these players to put 500 lbs. on their back with the prospect of increasing their fastball 2-3 mph when shoulder/elbow injury rates are already at their highest. Professional trainers, whether they totally agree with this, will make good money working with these affiliates and will want to keep their jobs. Kids coming up playing are of course going to follow suit and do what they see the pros doing. And I think big name online 'training' sources will constantly use these examples to drum the concept into heads for the need "to prevent injury" as a priority, in front of getting stronger.

I only play once a week and I'm on board 100% to get away from sport specific training but it isn't hard to understand why there is a particular fashion of thinking for strength and condition in such a huge market sport like baseball.

That said, I've always heard that Mickey Mantle hit the ball farther than anyone and at 5'11" 200lbs, he's dwarfed by your average star MLB player. I'm not sure what kind of training he did, if any (I've read that he came up hammering rocks in coal mines of Oklahoma) but he definitely ate and drank a lot.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Fair or not, it's a generalization and a waste of time in my opinion. Taking a whack at a particular group of athletes is ridiculous. I'm not a "baseball player". I stopped playing when I was fifteen and started up again around age 30 but to say that baseball players in general don't want to work hard is ridiculous.

Depends on what you mean by hard work.

I think a better point is talking about the way money has impacted all of these sports and a particular group of athlete's training habits. When a baseball club has invested xxx hundred million dollars into a player (especially a pitcher), they are less likely to allow these players to put 500 lbs. on their back with the prospect of increasing their fastball 2-3 mph when shoulder/elbow injury rates are already at their highest. Professional trainers, whether they totally agree with this, will make good money working with these affiliates and will want to keep their jobs. Kids coming up playing are of course going to follow suit and do what they see the pros doing. And I think big name online 'training' sources will constantly use these examples to drum the concept into heads for the need "to prevent injury" as a priority, in front of getting stronger.

We understand the motives. Really, we do. That's not the point.

That said, I've always heard that Mickey Mantle hit the ball farther than anyone and at 5'11" 200lbs, he's dwarfed by your average star MLB player. I'm not sure what kind of training he did, if any (I've read that he came up hammering rocks in coal mines of Oklahoma) but he definitely ate and drank a lot.

Have you heard of Herschel Walker?

[crookedfinger]

Fair or not, it's a generalization and a waste of time in my opinion. Taking a whack at a particular group of athletes is ridiculous. I'm not a "baseball player". I stopped playing when I was fifteen and started up again around age 30 but to say that baseball players in general don't want to work hard is ridiculous. I only play once a week and I'm on board 100% to get away from sport specific training but

Hence, my last words, "stop the silliness, get strong."

That said, I've always heard that Mickey Mantle hit the ball farther than anyone and at 5'11" 200lbs, he's dwarfed by your average star MLB player. I'm not sure what kind of training he did, if any (I've read that he came up hammering rocks in coal mines of Oklahoma) but he definitely ate and drank a lot.

Don't use the exception to prove the rule...

[John Janecek]

Hence, my last words, "stop the silliness, get strong."



Don't use the exception to prove the rule...

I have hard workers in every sport I train, and I have lazy non committed ones in every sport I train. More in some sports then others. Have coaches %100 on board with everything I do and others who talk a good game but never show up. It's an interesting mix... I put my effort and time into the ones that want to do it and don't beg the others that are looking for a way out .

[Will Morris]

Depends on what you mean by hard work.



We understand the motives. Really, we do. That's not the point.



Have you heard of Herschel Walker?

Have you seen the power Giancarlo Stanton has at the plate? Of course, he's not 5'11 and 200#. He's 6'4" and 245-255. He produces an exit velocity well over 100mph, and I believe he topped out at 117mph on a swing last year.

If you look at most of the best home run hitters of the past generation, you'd see that the rule tends to be 6'2" or taller, 230# or higher, and they tend to get bigger throughout their career. The Yankees have a prospect right now named Aaron Judge who is 6'7" and hovers around 280 who looks eerily similar to Giancarlo Stanton with regards to power at the plate.

Tim Tebow is a terrible baseball player compared to Major League talent, but at 6'3" and nearly 260#, this is a dude who hasn't player baseball since high school, and he can hit the ball out of a Major League park routinely during batting practice.

The point of this is: baseball trainers have not come around as fast as athletes have come around in this his sport. Strength and power is a high commodity in baseball. Much like car engines, there is no replacement for displacement.

[VNV]

...Much like car engines, there is no replacement for displacement.

Nice quote.

I think Mr. Ferrari said something like that, regarding the primacy of power over aerodynamics.

[Smidgey86]

Just for comparison:
5'7"
165#
Just shy of 36 years old
Bench: 355
Squat: 505
Deadlift: 495
Press: 215

Never did a baseball specific training program. I have spent the last couole years focusing on getting as strong as I could, but I can still hit the shit out of a ball, I can throw in the low to mid-70s a little more than a year after tommy john surgery, and I have plenty of speed and acceleration to be competitive at my age. My performance in recreational sports has improved proportionally to my increased strength.

What's your secret?

I'm 31, same height as you, weigh 150, been training 3 years, and my numbers are half of what you put up.

[Will Morris]

What's your secret?

I'm a completely marginal athlete, and very much just a recreational strength trainer. I have one of the worst genetic profiles ever encountered on this planet when it comes to genetic potential.

If you want to learn "the secret", those answers have to come from those that are better than me, and virtually all SSCs are significantly stronger than I am. Truth is, we all know the secret.....linear progression with basic barbell exercises and paying attention to recovery (eating enough, sleeping enough, and refraining from silly bullshit that keeps us from getting stronger).

The only thing that may somewhat set me apart from others is I find the prospect of someone being stronger than me absolutely repugnant. I push myself to get stronger out of a deep hatred for myself and out of a strong moral aversion to allowing someone to be stronger than me.

[Scaldrew]

I'm a completely marginal athlete, and very much just a recreational strength trainer. I have one of the worst genetic profiles ever encountered on this planet when it comes to genetic potential.

If you want to learn "the secret", those answers have to come from those that are better than me, and virtually all SSCs are significantly stronger than I am. Truth is, we all know the secret.....linear progression with basic barbell exercises and paying attention to recovery (eating enough, sleeping enough, and refraining from silly bullshit that keeps us from getting stronger).

The only thing that may somewhat set me apart from others is I find the prospect of someone being stronger than me absolutely repugnant. I push myself to get stronger out of a deep hatred for myself and out of a strong moral aversion to allowing someone to be stronger than me.

I can only echo everything you said here, Coach. Dealt a bum hand genetically and in life, hate being behind even though I may never be the best, and because of that I'm willing to give up anything and everything (legal) to try and get ahead. If I can squat 305x5 as a 230lb guy mid 20%s BF while others in my immediate vicinity are doing a little less, a little more at a much lighter BW, I won't hesitate for a second cos staying at 175 or 200 means I'd never reach 305x5 on the squat in any reasonable amount of time. I can cut later, need to do what I can to get strong first.

Props to you for admitting to that last bit. Takes bualls to be honest in the hobby of lifting and lots of trainees I know would rather live a lie than submit to reality.