Did this study just prove the Novice Effect? Did this study just prove the Novice Effect? - Page 4

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Thread: Did this study just prove the Novice Effect?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan B. View Post
    [Deputy Chief talking out his ass.]
    Uh huh...
    big dude, small dudes.jpg

    Put the force back in Law Enforcement.

  2. #32
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    For every emergency, police or otherwise, that can be resolved by running 5 miles, there are a hundred that can be resolved by lifting or moving a heavy object. Three easy ones: pulling someone out of the water and into a boat, lifting a tree limb off a person pinned underneath, pushing open a blocked door in a fire...
    When the officer with the great lungs catches up to the bad guy, it's still the stronger man that is more likely to prevail.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Morris View Post
    Certainly people aren't dying of small biceps, but sarcopenia / osteopenia are substantial causes of morbidity and mortality.
    I'm more interested in how the guy is supposed to make a difficult arrest with his VO2max.

    Quote Originally Posted by brcleeroy View Post
    Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't recall him ever saying that. Perhaps he has. However, that doesn't take away from my main point that both aerobic and strength training are important. If you are strong but have no aerobic capacity you are strong, but not fit. If you are aerobically fit but have no strength you are equally not fit. Both are important when it comes to fitness. The focus on what to train for is up to the individual.
    No, leroy, it's up to the physical requirements for which you're training. The job of a cop is not aerobic. We have cars for that shit. And as we've noted about 8000 times, there is a VO2max-training effect from correctly programmed strength training. The dismissive response was due to the fact that you're normally such a dumbass that they all hate you. I only approved the post because it was the first time you've ever even attempted to be reasonable on this board, even though you were wrong with your strawman 700 deadlift.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    And StrengthJesus wept. Did that guy coast into his job with NO time on the street? Because what followed was exactly like what John Musser was talking about in his video presentation.
    Training Law Enforcement and Firefighters | John F Musser

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    No, leroy, it's up to the physical requirements for which you're training. The job of a cop is not aerobic.
    Another nugget of information about the aerobic vs. anaerobic nature of LE. Strength is applied in very short bursts to haul the injured out of a vehicle or lift things to free them. Fights, by which I mean real-ass brawls in bars, alleys and parking lots are generally over in under 30 seconds. More often, 15 or so. The 3-5 minute rounds of refereed sporting events involving reasonably evenly matched opponents are a thing for athletes. By which I mean competitors rather than the "tactical type" the authors of this "study" elected to use for some sizzle to market their expertise.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan B. View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure where the 700lb squat & 4 min mile stuff came from. I just wanted to hang a poster. Thanks, Satch!
    They are representative of the extremes on both ends. i thought this would be clear. The point is that both are important parameters when discussing fitness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I'm more interested in how the guy is supposed to make a difficult arrest with his VO2max.



    No, leroy, it's up to the physical requirements for which you're training. The job of a cop is not aerobic. We have cars for that shit. And as we've noted about 8000 times, there is a VO2max-training effect from correctly programmed strength training. The dismissive response was due to the fact that you're normally such a dumbass that they all hate you. I only approved the post because it was the first time you've ever even attempted to be reasonable on this board, even though you were wrong with your strawman 700 deadlift.



    Training Law Enforcement and Firefighters | John F Musser
    I could also argue a similar point about aerobic exercise. Properly programmed aerobic exercise will also lead to an improvement in muscular strength as well. The degree of improvement observed through the opposite training modality (whether is be strength or aerobic training) would be small, however. The point still remains that training both modalities is important.

    Although my first post clearly was pointing to general health and morbidity, I would also disagree that aerobic endurance would not play a significant role in the event of a struggle. The cop may have to chase someone down. Also you don't exactly want the cop to be gassed during the struggle. To be perfectly clear, I do not want to downplay or minimize the importance of strength during the struggle. It is going to be extremely important. But if you are too tired to use that strength once you have caught up to the suspect, what good is it going to do?

    For example, I have zero doubts that you are stronger than I am. However, if we placed you in the role of the arresting officer I would love to see you try and subdue me. Unless you are planning on beating me with a night stick or shooting me with a gun it's probably not going to happen.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by brcleeroy View Post
    I could also argue a similar point about aerobic exercise. Properly programmed aerobic exercise will also lead to an improvement in muscular strength as well. The degree of improvement observed through the opposite training modality (whether is be strength or aerobic training) would be small, however.
    Do you actually believe this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Do you actually believe this?
    To the extent that exercise science can produce evidence, this is not played out in the evidence whatsoever.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Do you actually believe this?
    Do you not believe that if you were to take a previously untrained individual and had them begin an aerobic training program that they would not gain a small degree of muscular strength? Keep in mind I am by no means saying they would be doing 300-400 lb squats.

  9. #39
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    Man.....aerobics mavens will die on that cross, won't they?

    Leeroy, it doesn't really make any sense at all to spend time away from the physical training that is going to improve the capability that dominates the situation 90% of the time in order to indulge training for an eventuality that front-line LEO and military veterans insist almost never happens at all.

    And I can't for the life of me see why some people (like this boneheaded Deputy Chief) have such are hard time understanding the idea that we need to train for performance instead of training for health. Like, the military, law enforcement should conduct their physical training to be dominant on the field, not to theoretically extend their lifespans by 6 months 4 decades from now. A guy in a gym who's going to kit up and go face bad guys - LEO or military - should be uncompromisingly training to kick ass in that arena. He's fundamentally separate from the obese, polypharmalogical, Metabolic Syndromatic, hypertensive that starts training in order to not die in 3 years.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by brcleeroy View Post
    Do you not believe that if you were to take a previously untrained individual and had them begin an aerobic training program that they would not gain a small degree of muscular strength? Keep in mind I am by no means saying they would be doing 300-400 lb squats.
    It was a mistake to post the goddamn thing. I apologize to the board.

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