Did this study just prove the Novice Effect?

[brcleeroy]

Man.....aerobics mavens will die on that cross, won't they?

Leeroy, it doesn't really make any sense at all to spend time away from the physical training that is going to improve the capability that dominates the situation 90% of the time in order to indulge training for an eventuality that front-line LEO and military veterans insist almost never happens at all.

And I can't for the life of me see why some people (like this boneheaded Deputy Chief) have such are hard time understanding the idea that we need to train for performance instead of training for health. Like, the military, law enforcement should conduct their physical training to be dominant on the field, not to theoretically extend their lifespans by 6 months 4 decades from now. A guy in a gym who's going to kit up and go face bad guys - LEO or military - should be uncompromisingly training to kick ass in that arena. He's fundamentally separate from the obese, polypharmalogical, Metabolic Syndromatic, hypertensive that starts training in order to not die in 3 years.

How am I an aerobic maven? I have gone out of my way to make certain it is understood that BOTH modalities are important. How is it controversial on these boards to suggest that both aerobic and strength training are beneficial (even in the realm of combat). I am not saying that you need to go out and train for a marathon. However, even in the realm of combat, some level of aerobic conditioning is warranted. Like I said in my previous post. Do you not think there is a reason why MMA fighters, boxers, etc train for some level of aerobic conditioning?

[John Hanley]

And StrengthJesus wept.

Fucking infuriating.

But, to be fair, having a department of pussy officers makes sense. If the pussy officer can articulate a clear discrepancy in physical strength & perceived threat in a given arrest, pussy officer can justify an escalated use of force.

So, yeah, "VO2 max".

[m_sporkboy]

The Barbell Prescription has a great line in it along the lines of - if you find yourself suddenly needing to run five miles, your life has gone horribly wrong.

Today I wrestled open my garage door, deadlift style, after the torsion spring snapped. It saved me $200+ on my repair bill. A couple more of those and my gym is paid for

[Scaldrew]

Do you not think there is a reason why MMA fighters, boxers, etc train for some level of aerobic conditioning?

Sure, the reason is they're stoopeed. There's also this one fighter guy who dedicated himself to "powerlifting" and gaining a bunch of bodyweight as prep for his upcoming fight. He took 7 months off from fighting and did a "3-month camp" shortly before the fights he had coming up. He also admits to having focused on endurance a lot during his weight loss stage (making the weight class), but as you'll see, this didn't seem to make a difference in his performance. Self-reportedly, he wiped the floor with his opponent. I think a direct quote was "he was able to pick him up and pin him against the wall like it was nothing", something that doesn't sound awfully hard to believe given our understanding of strength training. He also broke some guy's arm with a kick, something "he had never done before". Guy's name is Jon Jones telling all this to Joe Rogan.

As smarter strength coaches than me have pointed out on this board, the only "downside" to being strong is that it does not equate to specific experience in a field. Strong men on their first day as a bricklayer may get tired regardless of their strength because of their lack of understanding where pacing is concerned. In short, they blow their load early and then struggle afterwards. The same thing applies to fighting, I reckon, where you simply lack the technical aptitude to make your strength count. This is why technique is still important, but does not supercede strength in relevance. Like power, technique that isn't backed up by strength cannot be demonstrated (to an effective degree), properly or improperly. That is, men who weigh 135lb with perfect kicking technique will lose to a 235lb man with sloppy to acceptable kicking technique. Unless you're McGregor, but exceptions only prove the rule.

[johnnys]

Fucking infuriating.

But, to be fair, having a department of pussy officers makes sense. If the pussy officer can articulate a clear discrepancy in physical strength & perceived threat in a given arrest, pussy officer can justify an escalated use of force.

So, yeah, "VO2 max".

Did you just start the Black Iron Matters movement?

[Bill Been]

How am I an aerobic maven? I have gone out of my way to make certain it is understood that BOTH modalities are important. How is it controversial on these boards to suggest that both aerobic and strength training are beneficial (even in the realm of combat). I am not saying that you need to go out and train for a marathon. However, even in the realm of combat, some level of aerobic conditioning is warranted. Like I said in my previous post. Do you not think there is a reason why MMA fighters, boxers, etc train for some level of aerobic conditioning?

"Aerobics maven" because you keep thrusting it into the conversation and insisting it's important.

What you keep overlooking - and apparently have never experienced for yourself - is that an acceptable level of conditioning travels along with strength training. That same individual for whom aerobic hoo-haw will increase strength, would experience a much more robust increase in both his strength and necessary conditioning if he ran a Novice LP. A heavy 3-lift barbell session ala Novice LP, done wearing a heart rate monitor, produces a heart rate history trace that looks exactly like a session of HIIT with long rests.

[Chris Lippke]

However, even in the realm of combat, some level of aerobic conditioning is warranted.

And, in your experience, the level of aerobic conditioning achieved via barbell training does not accomplish this satisfactorily?

[Bryan Bulmann]

And StrengthJesus wept. Did that guy coast into his job with NO time on the street? Because what followed was exactly like what John Musser was talking about in his video presentation.

In fairness, he was an excellent street cop. He had good instincts; used appropriate force when needed and wasn't 'badge heavy'. For a couple years, he was an amateur boxer and a pretty good one, too. Looking back to that time (early 2000's) I am reminded of something he liked to brag about. He was proud of his conditioning and would always outlast his opponent. Perhaps he's now conflating his boxing victories with actual street use of force? Something else I remembered that resonates with what Rip said in his latest "Ask Rip" series regarding weight classes and competition. He never wanted to box in the 'heavyweight' division and, in fact, took great pains in keeping his weight a class or two down from heavyweight. Maybe at the gut level, he realized he wasn't a match for a MUCH stronger boxer?

My suspicions are simply that his time at the Cooper Institute and the FBI academy kinda cardio-brainwashed him.

[Dexter Wolf]

Just like with the general public, I've found that narrowcasting tends to be the only successful mindset when promoting strength training to my brothers (and sisters) in blue. I'm considered one of the "go to" guys on the department when it comes to "fitness", but I can count the number of officers on one hand that have actually bought-in to the idea that strength is king. Those are the ones that I devote my time to. I'm not going to waste time arguing with someone, because there's no point.

Honestly, I just wish more officers would do anything fitness related. I'm tired of getting ODMP alerts of young guys dying of heart attacks during routine training. Our jobs are risky enough as it is.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I would love to see you try and subdue me. Unless you are planning on beating me with a night stick

Perhaps you overestimate your capabilities here. In any event, resist away. That's why cops have things like pepper spray, tasers, and night sticks. The last being the most effective moreso that the former implements. There's this naive notion that the fight has to be fair when resisting arrest. It does not.