Did this study just prove the Novice Effect? Did this study just prove the Novice Effect? - Page 6

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Thread: Did this study just prove the Novice Effect?

  1. #51
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    • phoenix arizona seminar date
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    For example, I have zero doubts that you are stronger than I am. However, if we placed you in the role of the arresting officer I would love to see you try and subdue me. Unless you are planning on beating me with a night stick or shooting me with a gun it's probably not going to happen.
    If I had a dime for every time I've heard that before, I could retire rich and well ahead of schedule. Have you ever 'played' with someone an order of magnitude stronger than you are? Not only is it a physical shock but a psychological one as well.

    Quick example, as a Control Tactics Instructor I was assigned as a Roll Player in a training scenario. In this scenario, my objective was to commit a battery against the officer (who I will call 'farmboy') and then resist his attempt to arrest me. Farmboy is 6'1, weighed about 325 and never lifted a barbell in his life. I thought I was gonna have a blast with this guy. As soon as Farmboy realized I was not going quietly, he surprised me. His was quick, grabbed me with both paws and picked me up effortlessly (I was running about 205#) and pile-drove me into the ground hard enough that is felt like...every...single...molecule of residual air in my lungs had been vacuumed out them. My will to fight was gone not only due to pain and lack of air; but also because I had been SO overwhelmed with how easily I had my ass handed to me.

    After the scenario, I asked him how long he had been weightlifting. He said he didn't. I believed him. He is just THAT strong. Shortly thereafter, I began a journey that ultimately led me here. I don't have any programming specifically for conditioning....yet. Why? Because doing deadlifts at 370x5x3 is fucking gruelling...and puts my heartrate up to around 135-140bpm...every set. I rest for 10mins between sets and I assure you those are the shortest 10mins of my life.

    Need another example? How about this? (I know exactly how Loki feels)


  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by brcleeroy View Post
    Like I said in my previous post. Do you not think there is a reason why MMA fighters, boxers, etc train for some level of aerobic conditioning?
    And like I said in MY previous posts, cops' fights are almost never 3-5 minutes with a referee in a controlled venue with rules. They are short, sharp, and intense lasting seconds rather than minutes.

    Being a cop is not the same as being an athlete. Unless they train for the Police Olympics.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan B. View Post
    My suspicions are simply that his time at the Cooper Institute and the FBI academy kinda cardio-brainwashed him.
    I dunno about the FBI academy, but even Ken Cooper, the "inventor" of aerobics back in the 60's when I was in high school moved a little farther on the strength scale in his later book on fitness. He started talking about squats, deadlifts and leg presses being an important balance, especially for the elderly to better maintain muscle mass and bone density. It looks like his Institute didn't follow along. Or your trainer guy heard the parts he wanted to hear and disregarded the rest.

    The boxing part is revealing though. Given the animosity in much of that sport toward strength training and it's emphasis on skills, it probably had such a powerful influence on his thinking.

  4. #54
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    It doesn't even seem that chasing a perp is suggested, let alone required. I googled "what percentage of arrests happen after foot chases?", the first article to come up was Foot Pursuits: To Chase or Not to Chase? - Article - POLICE Magazine saying it's not worth the risks nearly every time as it emotionally charges the encounter.

    Cause' what you gonna do when they come for you?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan B. View Post
    If I had a dime for every time I've heard that before, I could retire rich and well ahead of schedule. Have you ever 'played' with someone an order of magnitude stronger than you are? Not only is it a physical shock but a psychological one as well.

    Quick example, as a Control Tactics Instructor I was assigned as a Roll Player in a training scenario. In this scenario, my objective was to commit a battery against the officer (who I will call 'farmboy') and then resist his attempt to arrest me. Farmboy is 6'1, weighed about 325 and never lifted a barbell in his life. I thought I was gonna have a blast with this guy. As soon as Farmboy realized I was not going quietly, he surprised me. His was quick, grabbed me with both paws and picked me up effortlessly (I was running about 205#) and pile-drove me into the ground hard enough that is felt like...every...single...molecule of residual air in my lungs had been vacuumed out them. My will to fight was gone not only due to pain and lack of air; but also because I had been SO overwhelmed with how easily I had my ass handed to me.

    After the scenario, I asked him how long he had been weightlifting. He said he didn't. I believed him. He is just THAT strong. Shortly thereafter, I began a journey that ultimately led me here. I don't have any programming specifically for conditioning....yet. Why? Because doing deadlifts at 370x5x3 is fucking gruelling...and puts my heartrate up to around 135-140bpm...every set. I rest for 10mins between sets and I assure you those are the shortest 10mins of my life.

    Need another example? How about this? (I know exactly how Loki feels)

    You are leaving out the part where I am not exactly weak and Mark is far from the Hulk. My point remaining that BOTH strength and endurance are important. Also, yes, weight lifting does cause your heart rate to increase. If your heart rate is remaining elevated for prolonged periods of time after a set that means your recovery is shit which is an indicator of a poor level of aerobic fitness. RECOVERY IS PRIMARILY AN AEROBIC PROCESS! That is why aerobic fitness plays an important role in sports that are predominantly anaerobic such as football, basketball, hockey, combat sports, etc.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam McLeod View Post
    It doesn't even seem that chasing a perp is suggested, let alone required. I googled "what percentage of arrests happen after foot chases?", the first article to come up was Foot Pursuits: To Chase or Not to Chase? - Article - POLICE Magazine saying it's not worth the risks nearly every time as it emotionally charges the encounter.

    Cause' what you gonna do when they come for you?
    Oh for Heaven's sake! I have to wonder what administrator wrote that article. I did however enjoy this remark among the comments:

    I'm sorry, but maybe we shouldn't even respond to calls where there is a chance we may have to chase some pos, or even leave the house for fear that we may put ourselves in peril. "If the suspect is armed"? If you don't already believe that then maybe you should stay behind that desk. It's safer you know. For all of us.

  7. #57
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    "But I’m NOT a believer in the weight room much anymore, and neither is the NHL, NBA, MLB, the US Olympic committee… (I purposely excluded the NFL – bulk has a place there)"

    If you were planning on resisting arrest, who should you prefer to exit the vehicle and chase your ass down? An NFL linebacker or marathon runner?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan B. View Post
    For a couple years, he was an amateur boxer and a pretty good one, too. He was proud of his conditioning and would always outlast his opponent. He never wanted to box in the 'heavyweight' division and, in fact, took great pains in keeping his weight a class or two down from heavyweight. Maybe at the gut level, he realized he wasn't a match for a MUCH stronger boxer?
    As you insist on sea-plowing/up-rope-pissing with your Chief it might be worth asking:

    If condidtioning is so important and his was/is so good, why be worried about facing anyone in a heavier weight class when you can "always outlast them?"

    Why does Boxing have weight classes?

    If cardio/conditioning is so much more important than size, wouldn't it make more sense to segregate competitors by resting heart rate and/or VO2 max instead?

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