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Thread: Score one for the Barbell!

  1. #11
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    It seem did seem like you had admonished the standard of conventional orthopedic medicine in the US with your first post in this thread. John and Sean are reporting difficulties getting through to the medical community as well. Maybe it is fair to say that you are a successful author and businessman, but an outsider to high level medical science, that you promulgate a set of medical practices which are scientifically untested, however seemingly irrefutable?

  2. #12
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    Last year I hurt my shoulder pretty bad during a set of bench presses. My conversation with the doctor went like this:
    Doc: How did your hurt your shoulder?
    Me: Doing bench presses.
    Doc: Were you seated or lying down?
    Me: Lying down
    Doc (wiggles my arm around): You tore your supraspinatus tendon.
    Me: How long will it take to heal?
    Doc: depends on how bad it is. If it takes a few weeks, it was a small tear. If it takes a few months, it was a bigger tear.
    She refused to take an xray, and told me to lay off upperbody training until it was healed. As you can probably guess, the pain subsided when I started pressing again and went away completely when I started pressing heavy.

    At my current unit, I had to fill out a medical questionnaire where I admitted to drinking protein shakes and consuming dietary fat on a daily basis. The doctor tested my kidney function. When the my kidney's were determined to be fine, she told me, "You're very lucky. I had a patient who drank protein shakes once and he had bad kidneys." She also warned me not to consume dietary fat every day. This woman was not just a professional doctor but also outranked the commanding officer of the base.

    It's a pretty bad idea to take lifting advice from someone who doesn't know what a bench press is, or diet advice from someone who thinks that protein and fat are terrible for you. Doctors learn something in medical school, but you can't trust them on everything.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    Is that correct that you are in disagreement with the consensus of medical experts at the highest levels of achievement in their own field, namely, the field of medicine?
    Which consensus would that be?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    It seem did seem like you had admonished the standard of conventional orthopedic medicine in the US with your first post in this thread. John and Sean are reporting difficulties getting through to the medical community as well. Maybe it is fair to say that you are a successful author and businessman, but an outsider to high level medical science, that you promulgate a set of medical practices which are scientifically untested, however seemingly irrefutable?
    As unseemly and abrupt as this may be, I find myself developing a mild dislike for you. Why have you assumed that we have a "hard time getting physicians on board"?

  5. #15
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    What Dr. Baraki said.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    ...blah, blah, blah...that you promulgate a set of medical practices which are scientifically untested, however seemingly irrefutable?
    I press and deadlift a pretty respectable weight, especially for a 50 year old post MI guy. I'd say Rips practices are pretty well tested by numerous people in every conceivable demographic. He's helped a lot of people...me included.

    I recently went to my doc for nerve pain in my shoulder and he told me my, "scapulae aren't strong enough." Yes, he actually said that. The level of ignorance in the medical community is astounding. Mind you, I love my doc and have great respect for him. He just doesn't know what he doesn't know. Something tells me if you stick around here with a closed mouth and open mind you may learn something too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    What Dr. Baraki said.
    What Dr. Feigenbaum said.

    Just waiting for Doc Sully and Doc Pluripotent to weigh in.

    You've stepped into a minefield.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    John and Sean are reporting difficulties getting through to the medical community as well?
    I didn't talk to anyone in the medical community? I coached a person interested in strength training. A few weeks later they contacted me saying they hurt their back and went to a Dr and got the advice to do nothing for six weeks then not squat anything over ten pounds again.

    I gave her a program of barbell exercises with a slightly limited range of motion or a different setup so she could continue to train if she chose to.

    She did and reported it was much better than what she was told at the Dr office.

    I've been treating injured athletes/general population folks like this for 27 years and it always works.

    Many doctors and athletic trainers are on board %100 with me at the colleges and high schools I've worked at...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    John and Sean are reporting difficulties getting through to the medical community as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Janecek View Post
    I didn't talk to anyone in the medical community?
    Yeah, neither of us are either having difficulties or even trying to "get through to the medical community." John gave an example where a client was grateful for his advice, despite it being different from her doctor's, and I simply gave a few reasons why some doctors/physical therapists don't agree with the philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    You are ... an outsider to high level medical science
    You are correct there. I bet Rip doesn't know a single thing about the latest technology in heart surgery. But knowing that things tend to get better by doing their anatomically designated function is not "high level medical science."

    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    that you promulgate a set of medical practices which are scientifically untested, however seemingly irrefutable?
    "Scientifically untested." Considering how well most studies about this are done, what would meet your criteria for this? You want a paper? Here you go: Neuromuscular Activation in Conventional Therapeutic Exercises and Heavy Resistance Exercises: Implications for Rehabilitation. They even had people squatting!

    It's really not that controversial, even in the depths of entrenched medical liability land, that people should return to activity as soon as they are able to do so safely. It's just that most people hear that you're squatting 200 pounds and think "Oh, that's dangerous." And the implications roll on from there.

    Of course, this is probably a wasted effort, since, even though I think Rip is often too quick to call troll, I admit I'm likely too slow to do the same. He's been at it longer, maybe my patience hasn't been tested enough yet.

    Oh, and the multiple usernames don't help your case either.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Janecek View Post
    I didn't talk to anyone in the medical community? I coached a person interested in strength training. A few weeks later they contacted me saying they hurt their back and went to a Dr and got the advice to do nothing for six weeks then not squat anything over ten pounds again.

    I gave her a program of barbell exercises with a slightly limited range of motion or a different setup so she could continue to train if she chose to.

    She did and reported it was much better than what she was told at the Dr office.

    I've been treating injured athletes/general population folks like this for 27 years and it always works.

    Many doctors and athletic trainers are on board %100 with me at the colleges and high schools I've worked at...
    I wish I knew someone in my area like this to refer to. I'd agree that most docs don't know shit about the rehab potential of a well designed weight program. But those who do don't have anyone to refer to, and we sure as shit don't have the time to train the patients ourselves. I can tell them to do a few things, but they really need coaching and programming, which I don't have time for and can't get paid for, anyway (nor do I have much experience training injured and broken people). So, while I am well aware that my inpatient or outpatient rehab referral is mostly worthless, it's the best I have.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by udderfilt View Post
    In the time it took me to write this post I could have done a basic bit of research which would have eliminated the need for this post, leaving everyone better off. Fuck all that. I'm here with my uninformed opinion. I'm asking these questions like it's the first time they're being asked and spewing hypotheses despite the fact that I have no relevant data, nor even interest in such data. Evidenced by that fact that, again, I will not even do a google search to collect the readily available data.
    Quite the contribution. I look forward to see in what novel direction your comments steer this thread.

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