If a man tears his ACL, and no physician ever makes the diagnosis, did he really tear his ACL?Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
TMPHBITEU
Yep. Psychotherapist. Only Therapists are qualified to judge another man's experiences.
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If a man tears his ACL, and no physician ever makes the diagnosis, did he really tear his ACL?
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Rippetoe. If feeling the symptoms or finding professional help to find out if you have it is childish and you never did that, then how can you know you have PTSD?
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FWIW, the OP had a whiff of the Special Populations thread to me. This last contribution from them seems to confirm it.
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Rip's approach, although a bit more terse, doesn't seem wildly different from Col. Dave Grossman's who has done some very interesting work on the topic.
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Who knew therapists were so amazing that they can deduce so much about a person from one short post? Especially when said post contained no information of the event or the experiences that followed it?
I didn't realize psychological stressors were as black and white as physiological ones.
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I think Rip's answer to his problem is wonderful because it's realistic. Throughout history people weren't babied like they are now - something bad happened you had to suck it up or die. Hearing Rip's responses on anything medical related is always comforting.
I find it odd nobody has asked what happened. Rip, would you mind sharing it with us?
I find this statement incredibly arrogant. How in the world could you suggest someone had a mood swing, and just self-diagnosed themselves out of nowhere? Not to mention you don't even know what happened. Obviously Rip is intelligent as he has created a large, successful organization - so why in the world would he not be able to determine what is going on with himself?
"Professional help" to most intelligent people means seeing a physician. What kind of special toolset do you have that Rip doesn't already posses? A better question is, what in the world qualifies you to determine what is going on with other people? You're not a medical doctor - far from it actually. Psychology is a very popular degree because it is incredibly easy.
A four year degree in psychology is utterly worthless. Just because you just went to school forever to study an easy field to get your masters (or doctorate) doesn't mean you have some magic ability to determine what is wrong with people.
I would argue that people that go into psychology are somewhat delusional. They think that they are intelligent enough to diagnose someone with a disease without taking a single math or fucking science course.
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I hesitate to comment, as I know nothing of PTSD. I do know a little (just a little) about psychotherapists, as I have known more than a few socially. What I find a bit weird in this conversation that is that people seem to equate "therapy" with dwelling on stuff. Sure, there are these old-school therapies where you lie on the couch and complain about your mother, but most of the therapies I am aware of have nothing to do with this. In fact, the are not that different from coaching.
Mental resilience is also something that may need to be trained; We are not all born that way and certainly not everyone grows in an environment where they face the necessary challenges and disappointments needed to develop it. All the nonsense about safe spaces and trigger warnings and whatnots goes directly against everything we know about what works for people that have these kinds of issues. Also, there seems to be a false dichotomy between ruminating on the past and somehow blocking everything that might cause you distress out. That is not how the brain works, because much like the muscles, the mental processes that are needed to become resilient, need to be trained. If they have not been trained, attempting to just directly "such it up" will be similar to a novice taking 450 on the squat on the first day at the gym.
If a person has developed resilience from childhood, say, by being exposed to disappointment and "shit", then perhaps they do have the mental fortitude to face shit. Good for them, and no problem there, no therapist needed and no reason to tell them that they've done it wrong somehow. On the other hand, in this day and age, we have a lot of people who just have not learned to deal with bad stuff. Ok, label them pussies, pansies, pajama-boys and whatever. But just like physically weak people, you probably should not expect them to just have the mental fortitude from day one to suck it up when they face traumatic stuff in their lives. For such people -- and by all means, call them weak -- a process not at all unlike the novice linear progression of the Starting Strength model is needed.
And that is where therapists -- ones that know their shit instead of those who just make you whine year on end while they get paid by the hour -- come in handy. Just like Planet Fitness or whatever those things are called, make most of their money from people who don't really want to get strong, a lot of therapists make money from people who don't want to train their mental fortitude. These charlatans give psychotherapy its bad name. But just like there are a few good strength coaches who know their shit, so there are a few good therapists out there. I know, because I've seen it. Saying "no one needs therapy, just suck it up" is like saying "no one needs a coach, just lift". Yes, most people can do it on their own, but just like not everyone is able to learn proper lifting technique from books, not everyone is naturally mentally resilient or able to develop such resilience on their own. Some people are "motor morons", some people are "emotional morons". And some people are just morons in general, of course.
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I thought F.G. Tonyas was a troll right from the OP and was surprised that Rip seemed to take the bait this time. But hey, at least this thread resulted in Theban finally getting the ban.
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Rip, speaking as someone who has a foot in both worlds, I don't see much difference between what you guys (SSC's) do and what good psychotherapists do. If it were so easy to "get on with our fucking lives" and not to "dwell on the feelings and to focus on the events," then there wouldn't be much of a market for your organization. Most of your SS work seems to be devoted to combating misinformation, addressing impatience and the search for quick fixes, understanding but not supporting or colluding with anxiety and fear, confronting irrational beliefs with empirical facts, and generally fighting the natural human tendency to avoid arduous, tedious, potentially injurious work. Kinda sounds like my day too.
While I find the tone in your initial response unnecessarily aggressive and defensive, I don't really disagree much with anything you say about how to deal with the disorder, apart from the ridiculous idea that people have volitional control over involuntary physiological responses. PTSD (like all anxiety disorders, big and small) stays alive by encouraging avoidance. Avoidance of responsibility, avoidance of physicality, avoidance of fear, avoidance of relationships, avoidance of emotions. Avoidance of life. It is treated and cured, such as it can be, by exposing oneself to and confronting these situations and aspects of life that are ultimately what make life living. Good therapy does not encourage avoidance; it pushes people to re-engage and to "get on with their fucking lives," as you put it. Some people need help with that. It seems there are people willing to pay both of us to do that.
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