training with PTSD

[F.G. Tonyas]

Hello, Rip. A friend of mine said that you spoke openly about how you have PTSD in a video. I looked for it, but could not find it. So I hope it is okay to ask about this private matter, if you already talked about it yourself. From what I understand you don't just train, but you work in your gym every day. I cannot believe how difficult it must be for you with the flashbacks and anxiety and all those stressors. It is a really loud environment to work in.

So I am a psychotherapist. And a gym member. I wanted to get some tips from you. People are discouraged from seeking help, there is a lot of social stigma. But what we always tell them is to find an outlet in the arts or sports, for example. I would like to take the group I am counseling to the gym, as a group activity. If they see the benefits, they can really prove themself in the gym. Especially when doing this program. But I think warming many of them up to the training environment could be very difficult, if not impossible. Especially if places like train stations or parties are difficult to manage some days already. Are the loud noises typically heard in a gym not a problem? I think the dropping of plates and the bars getting racked might make many jumpy or that they could feel physically trapped when squatting or bench pressing. A very bad timing for a flashback or panic attack... Another worry is that if someone who was abused sees other people being super aggressive and loud in the sport, that that might scare them away from the environment. Or seeing people (maybe) get hurt, that would be very stressing for them. To be fair, that possibility is always there, everywhere they go. Still, I think getting stronger and proving themself is the best thing they can do for their health and their self confidence, which has often been damaged badly. If they can work through the stressors and potential triggers with time. But maybe it's too much.

How did your trauma influence your training? How did you avoid triggers? Were you in therapy or are you still?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your not going to like this, but when you ask personal questions for a living, you'd better get used to it. I had and have a completely different approach to this than you do. I got on with my fucking life. The only "therapy" I did was setting new PRs, dealing with tragedy the way human beings with other responsibilities have always done, and letting time do its job. I gave myself no permission to "trigger", to "flashback", or to be so fragile as to react as a child would, especially since there are about 2 billion people in the world with a shittier story than me, who don't have the opportunity to file for coddling or "therapy." For that matter, I didn't even know that what I had experienced was regarded as PTSD until 30 years later.

I think your approach -- dwelling on the feelings and focusing on the events -- prolongs the problem, and has generated essentially no benefit for most of the people who would do better by not permitting a therapist to rub the wound for money. Sorry.

[donfrancisco]

Dear Coach,

When I read this gentleman's post I could not stop rolling my eyes. I read it to my wife and she felt there must be some middle ground between this therapist's coddling tone and the tone of your response. On some level, I think she's right but that is not how I feel at the deepest core of me. When I read the therapist's post I feel anger at his coddling tone, I feel disgust that there are so many weak people in this world who can't seem to realize that they are the directors of their lives. If you don't like some aspect of your life's narrative, you can choose to leave it on the cutting room floor. You can choose the theme of your life even if you cannot control every plot point.

But alas it seems as if so many people are like small cups of fragile china. And when life presents them with it's inevitable obstacles, their little cups easily runneth over. Perhaps these fragile people will find my analogy and tone to be wholly unsympathetic as they may find little solace in your response. But at the end of the day, I stand by the view that those that see themselves as masters of their fate are greater benefactors of humanity then those coddlers that feed on the sores of human weakness.

Best always,

Francisco

[tbennett]

I work in a Veterans' hospital, and I have seen hundreds of young guys who served in the sandbox, many with PTSD, and more than a few of them lift. I have yet to hear any of them complain about dropped bars or weights and the resultant noise. Far from it, they love the gym, esp. when they have friends there.

If anything, we encourage the bejeezus out of them to get some exercise and also get out of the house - tends to help a lot when they do that.

Taking care, of course, not to do stupid stuff like the colleague of mine who sent a pretty agoraphobic PTSD patient to the movies as a sort of therapy graduation exercise, and since the guy liked comic books as a kid, he recommended the Iron Man movie (first one, right when it came out). The psychologist hadn't seen it himself. Would have been nice if he had, since the opening of the movie is a convoy of Hummers in Afghanistan coming under an RPG attack. I understand the vet was.....rather upset at the follow up session.

Rip's post dovetails nicely with Paul Meehl's statements on "the spun-glass theory of mind" that suggests it is absolutely silly to consider that humans are terribly fragile creatures who require constant handling with kid gloves.

[Christopher Anderson]

I see people jumping on Ripp for giving his opinion to a person who asked him a question. How is that fair? His approach to handling issues and events that have happened to him in his life have helped him and that's how he views this subject. To say that he does or does not have PTSD because he handles it or reacts the same way or differently than others is the wrong way to approach his statement/answer. I know plenty of good men and women who have served, been abused, and gone through horrible things who have different views on how to approach and handle PTSD.

Many agree with Ripp that not allowing yourself to be a victim to your emotions so to speak, is the best way to handle it. Others feel the need to seek professional help, and that is great too. Its like two people who have smoked for 20 years, one quits cold turkey on the first try, while the other takes several attempts wit the use of patches and gums. That doesn't mean the first person was as addicted to smoking as the second person, it just means they used different approaches to the same problem.

[thedude47111]

I'm in the mental health world, too, and from what I see it's slowly becoming the consensus that the way talk therapy has been done has not been helpful to people with PTSD. Traditionally talk therapy has been very good at calming people down, and that isn't what people with PTSD need really. The best thing I've ever seen for people with PTSD is neurofeedback.

The people with PTSD who I've seen haven't been able to choose how they react or whether they had a flashback. It's great that Rip had that choice. On one recent case, a man came back from Iraq, had PTSD, and was starving himself to death. He was able to be hospitalized when we put him through a neurofeedback protocol and he, over the course of some months, began to get his life back. But it seems a strange turn of phrase to say he "gave himself permission" to have a flashback.

[silachoo]

I see people jumping on Ripp for giving his opinion to a person who asked him a question. How is that fair? His approach to handling issues and events that have happened to him in his life have helped him and that's how he views this subject. To say that he does or does not have PTSD because he handles it or reacts the same way or differently than others is the wrong way to approach his statement/answer. I know plenty of good men and women who have served, been abused, and gone through horrible things who have different views on how to approach and handle PTSD.

Many agree with Ripp that not allowing yourself to be a victim to your emotions so to speak, is the best way to handle it. Others feel the need to seek professional help, and that is great too. Its like two people who have smoked for 20 years, one quits cold turkey on the first try, while the other takes several attempts wit the use of patches and gums. That doesn't mean the first person was as addicted to smoking as the second person, it just means they used different approaches to the same problem.

I like this response. It's a different strokes different folks thing.

[Christopher Anderson]

Not talking about TMPHBITEU (I know about Mark only form YouTube and this forum, and have no reason not to believe him), but only about the mentioned by you good men and women - the fact that they have been abused and gone through terrible things doesn't mean they have a PTSD.

Of course it doesn't mean that they automatically have or suffer from PTSD, but you don't get PTSD from a wonderful weekend at Disney.

[David A. Rowe]

Funny that this topic should come up. I'm working on something (my life's work, hopefully) on this very topic, but it all stems from my own experience while in, deployed, separating, adjusting to civilian life and under the bar.

I wasn't diagnosed with PTSD until after I had already separated. When I was finally formally evaluated by the VA I was told that I had extreme PTS, but I did not exhibit the classic symptoms of the disorder. Said differently, I didn't take it out on my wife/kids/the dog, I didn't turn to substance abuse, I didn't drink myself to death, I held down jobs (not easily all the time, but I did it), and I paid my bills on time. I spent three years worth of sick days in about eight months doing just about every therapy, medication and program the VA could throw at me. I did not see improvement. None of this makes me a special case, nor does it make me a hero for "sticking it out" or "sucking it up." I can only imagine the actual amount of people with "PTS but no D" that suffer from this (in silence), and they could certainly use some relief.

There are only two things that worked for me. Time and strength training. I do not mean to say that these are the magic answers to every PTSD case in the world, but I do believe that a person with PTS(D) can only benefit from strength training. There are a variety of other issues facing veterans, specifically, after they separate, but strength training universally helps those things, as well... if only as a base to build on.

At the end of the day, though, there are two types of broken people. Those who want to carry on, and those who want to remain broken.

[Kiril]

I wasn't diagnosed with PTSD until after I had already separated. When I was finally formally evaluated by the VA I was told that I had extreme PTS, but I did not exhibit the classic symptoms of the disorder. Said differently, I didn't take it out on my wife/kids/the dog, I didn't turn to substance abuse, I didn't drink myself to death, I held down jobs (not easily all the time, but I did it), and I paid my bills on time. I spent three years worth of sick days in about eight months doing just about every therapy, medication and program the VA could throw at me. I did not see improvement. None of this makes me a special case, nor does it make me a hero for "sticking it out" or "sucking it up." I can only imagine the actual amount of people with "PTS but no D" that suffer from this (in silence), and they could certainly use some relief.

Yes, but are YOURS symptoms of PTS(D), if not the classic ones? Depression? Anxiety? Some neurosis?