Strong enough for what?

[OZ-USF-UFGator]

When I reach the age where it is impossible to get stronger and I'm lifting to reduce the rate of decline, I think I will suffer from clinical depression. UGH, not looking forward to having to accept THAT reality. Hopefully, I have another decade of gains left as I'd like to reach the 550 - 575 deadlift club first. 500 to 550 is proving a challenge for this 45 year old desk jockey.

[Pluripotent]

I agree with your whole post for most of the people, most of the time.

But this mantra is not valid any more when we get to special situations, special people, special goals - to the extremes. And thats where this "stronger is always better" fails. For example, when pluripotent naively claims that if they would have this and that entry level of strength, EVERY sports team would wipe out others.

Thats simply not true: Ressources are finite for professional athletes and for some goals, it may very well be prudent not to dedicate most of them to strength training let alone SELECT athletes for their ability to reach high strength standards - you dont want to have 20 Eddie Halls walking around on a soccer field.

You also dont want to lift 7 times a week to your genetic (and thus recovery) limit bulking to the highest body weight you can when your goal is general health.

So thats where this blind "stronger = always better" fails: At the dogmatic "always".

Lets put there an "often" instead.

The thread is about rugby so I assumed we were talking about sports that are heavily strength based. Football would be a good corollary. No one mentioned soccer. Deadlifting heavy might produce more wins if it enables you to jump higher while holding your balls, which seems to be what soccer eventually boils down to, after they finish with all the running back and forth without a goal for four hours. But then, you can't improve your SVJ, so... Maybe it would help prevent injuries since soccer is the number one sport for injuries. Maybe nobody can really help soccer much.

[Marenghi]

You're not a new member.

Why are you raising points that have already been addressed here time and time again?

Well, as long as people write things like this

The first team that makes a 500 lbs deadlift an entry level requirement would likely make a sweep of everyone else, and sports would be forever changed.

Lifting stats in the NRL (Rugby) I think there is merit in correcting that. Seems they havent attended when the points were adressed here time and time again.

[David Mitchell]

If "stronger is better" fails in some cases, wouldn't you then have to conclude that, sometimes, "weaker is better"?

I can't imagine in what application this would be true.

[I_iz_a_fatass]

Of course there are even downsides for someone like you who is not a professional athlete that needs other qualities or has finite ressources once youre very near your limits: What youre gonna gotta do when you stall with 4 days training/w? Well, you should train 5 times a week. If you stall there, then six, then seven. Then some days twice. You should gain weight, even surpassing body fat levels considered as healthy, cause that will give you more (absolute) strength. Some chronic injuries will occur, your immune system doesnt like permanent heavy efforts as well - so yes, there will be downsides. Try it out and report back if there are no downsides.

It's rare I meet someone who sees the need to be both blindingly obtuse and utterly misrepresent things I say. Well done.

[hector_garza]

Of course there are even downsides for someone like you who is not a professional athlete that needs other qualities or has finite ressources once youre very near your limits: What youre gonna gotta do when you stall with 4 days training/w? Well, you should train 5 times a week. If you stall there, then six, then seven. Then some days twice. You should gain weight, even surpassing body fat levels considered as healthy, cause that will give you more (absolute) strength. Some chronic injuries will occur, your immune system doesnt like permanent heavy efforts as well - so yes, there will be downsides. Try it out and report back if there are no downsides.

Wow. Good point. If only there were a response for this bit of genius.

Out of curiosity, how strong were you when you resorted to training 7x/week?

[Mark E. Hurling]

When I reach the age where it is impossible to get stronger and I'm lifting to reduce the rate of decline, I think I will suffer from clinical depression. UGH, not looking forward to having to accept THAT reality. Hopefully, I have another decade of gains left as I'd like to reach the 550 - 575 deadlift club first. 500 to 550 is proving a challenge for this 45 year old desk jockey.

As you mature still further, you may find this attitude changes. So you look for new things to do to stay strong and challenge yourself. You can also engage in the self congratulatory exercise of being glad you are better off than almost everyone else your age.

Don't worry, you'll be fine when you get to that point.

[Pluripotent]

Correction: this apparently isn't the rugby thread. Anyway, the rest of the argument stands. Strength based sports are likely to improve the most by more strength. Otherwise, other arguments make increased strength desirable, anyway.

[Mark D]

I think I understand why this question keeps coming up, assuming it's an honest question and not trolling.....

Just discussing people who have no interest in powerlifting competition or other strength-based sports (even if the strength component isn't the MAIN purpose of the sport), there's a steep curve at the low end of the strength/quality-of-life curve. The person who starts off unable to get out of a chair unassisted, and who can fairly quickly walk up a flight of stairs unassisted, and who shortly later can carry a couple bags of groceries up those stairs, has shown an immense increase in quality of life by getting stronger (by no means STRONG, but strongER). In real-world terms, your ability to carry out your day-to-day functions doesn't change a whole lot if you get your squat 5RM from 405 to 495, it changes a TON if you get it from 45 to 135. So the question becomes "How strong do I have to be to (insert activity of choice)." As we get older, the question becomes "Is getting stronger than I am now worth the risk of injury/difficulty of recovery/time taken from other activities?" The answer to that requires the answer to the question "How strong are you NOW?" If you can't get up off the toilet, then it's certainly worth it. If you can squat 405 getting stronger may be a case of "It would be nice, but if the grandchildren are coming over tomorrow and you want to play with them, it can wait until next week."

[Jr_Geezer]

As has been said before many times, lifting heavy shit that has the ability to just drop you on your ass builds a certain character. When a weight stops being "scary" that character building ceases to continue.

When the weight actually does drop you on your ass, you tend to look at things a bit differently, I think. Before I hurt my back a week ago, I was really looking forward to a 500-lb deadlift attempt at the Fall Classic this October. I popped a disc or something pulling 465, a weight I had done before. Now there's no way I'm even going to complete in the Classic. Sure, I'm going to get back under the bar soon and start the recovery process, but I missed almost a week at work and ruined the family Labor Day weekend vacation because I'm relatively immobile. I was going to help my kid's high school marching band by helping to load heavy instruments onto the truck for away games this season. Poof, that's gone too.

I've read the many threads here on disc injuries and I'm pretty sure I'll make a complete recovery over the next weeks or months. I'll squat and deadlift to help the recovery, but I just can't see myself taking the risk of injuring myself like this again by lifting heavy (I also had a torn adductor last November). The 500-lb deadlift, which I once thought was an achievable goal, has been forgotten, as has the 4-plate squat (I was up to 365). I'm not sure where I'll end up. I'm 56, too old not to be concerned about the risks. This is disappointing to me and a bit depressing as well because I really loved moving those weights, but I don't think I can convince myself that they are worth the risk now.

-RJP