Why not lose 6-8% bodyfat and not need metformin?.Originally Posted by Yonason Herschlag
Member
Oh, sure. I was a little unclear in my post. When I was first diagnosed, I wanted to just try to lift weights and get stronger, and hope that the training would be sufficient. It was, in that the doctor thought I'd be insulin dependent, and I was able to keep off of it just by lifting weights and adjusting my diet. Since then, I've dropped down to the 220's, got disgusted with the loss in strength that came with a pretty rapid weight cut, gained most of it back (good news, I got my deadlift back over 500; bad news, I was fat again), and then took a more moderate dietary approach to get back to 230. Being 40 pounds lighter is no doubt better for blood sugar management, but my doctor still wants me on the metformin.
Back to the OP, I don't know whether the metformin adversely impacts my strength and recovery. Maybe I'd be pulling 600 by now if I wasn't diabetic and having to deal with all that. But it's definitely possible to lift, recover, and get to respectable strength levels while being on it.
Member
Why not lose 6-8% bodyfat and not need metformin?.
Member
I would appreciate if you could elaborate:
What were your lifts (and body weight) when you just started out in 9/2013?
What were your lifts (and body weight) just before you began taking metformin in 2014 (and what month was that)?
Exactly when did you hit your peak lifts?
How much are you lifting now?
Answers to these questions could give us more of an indication what the effects of metformin were for you.
Thanks
PS I am a little relieved from my concerns for having taken it for six weeks. From your experience it appears the effects aren't catastrophic.
Fair enough question. A year and a half ago I had my second knee surgery. My waist was 4 inches smaller, and my body fat was at about 20%. My surgeon warned me to stop running. I had been running a couple miles every morning, while lifting in the afternoons. That program had gotten my waist down and my strength up. Since I stopped running I have continued lifting and increasing my strength, but my weight went up 14 kg in the past year and a half.
Believe my I had tried dieting. From research I found out that metformin helps reduce body weight when combined with proper diet and exercise. My endocrinologist recommended it. I am not diabetic, but rather barely pre-diabetic, so I don't "need" metformin. My hA1c is only 6.0.
During the six weeks on metformin I did manage to cut 2kg. Certainly not a significant amount, but better than gaining 2kg, which likely would have happened without it.
At 53 years old, I can tell you that for me, losing 6% of body fat is much easier said than done. I currently consume close to 3000 calories per day. When I go down to 2000 cal/d for a couple weeks, my lifting goes to pot, but I don't lose any weight. I've been struggling with this for years. I usually get 250 grams of protein per day, I am careful what I eat and when I eat and how much I eat, but I've sort of given up on killing myself with starvation.
Member
You have not bad numbers, and I don't know how you manage, working almost twice my time a week, training in a gym with that kind of success. I'm not a doctor(and even not a coach!), but I would say that unless you're a professional lifter, it's better to low a BW even knowing that you'll drop your lifting weights(losing some strength), but be a healthier - and still a strong - person.
JohnW,Maybe because it's difficult. Sounds banal, but it's not easy to lose weight(=fat) the older you are.Why not lose 6-8% bodyfat and not need metformin?.
Member
I dug around in my logs, and found my original paperwork showing when I was diagnosed with diabetes. My original post was from memory, so some of those dates were a touch inaccurate (particularly when I was diagnosed).
My first workout of LP was on September 27, 2013. I squatted 135 for 3 sets of 5, benched 135 for a set of 3, and then 120 for 3 sets of 5 (I hadn't gotten to the part in the book about determining starting weights~), and deadlifted 145 for a set of 5. My first workout with the press was with 65 pounds for 3 sets of 5. I didn't log my weight than, but I hovered between 260 and 270 pounds throughout my LP and early intermediate stage.
My diagnosis of diabetes came sooner than I remembered. I have a paper dated October 29, 2013 showing the test results on an HGB A1C test. The number was 10.4. As I've indicated before, the doctor wanted me on insulin; I resisted and started out with 2000 mg of metformin and an injection of Victoza. Within 6 months of so, I quit taking that Victoza, and didn't have any problems from quitting that.
After completing my LP, I used variants of a one lift per day program and the Texas Method. I hit the 475 lb squat on May 6, 2015. About a week after that, I finally decided I needed to lose some weight (having always subscribed to the idea of doing your LP, then worrying about weight as an intermediate). I reached out to Andy Baker for a custom program and diet template. It worked great, but I got overzealous in losing the weight, and rather than listening to the coach, I cut more and more carbs out of my diet. Within 3 months (late August 2015), I'd dropped from 270 pounds to 227, and naturally lost a lot of strength. I had always thought that a 500 lb deadlift sounded great, so... I went for it. I lost all my good eating habits, trained my ass off, bulked back up to around 260, and on April 6, 2016, hit a 465 lb squat, 275 lb bench, and a 500 lb deadlift in the same session. 3 months later, on July 20, 2016, I hit the 510 lb deadlift.
From July until November, I suffered a lot of fuck-around-itis. In November 2016, I went to the doctor for something unrelated, and my sugar was a little higher than it needed to be. I was hovering around 270 lbs at that time. I went back to the program and meal plan Andy had given me in 2015, and by July 2017, I was back under 230 lbs. After a vacation and a minor shoulder injury, I'm just now getting back to lifting as frequently as I'd like, and a little bit of weight has crept back on (I'm around 235 now). I haven't done anything close to a 1rm squat lately, but I'm pretty confident I'm good for 385-405. I recently deadlifted 435 with probably 20-30 lbs in the tank, benched 225 with probably 20 lbs in the tank, and pressed 155 (I went a long time not prioritizing the press).
So... pretty much all of my training history is with metformin. My progress has been complicated over time by this pesky weight loss thing, probably much more so than any side effects from the metformin.
Member
Thanks. I work two jobs, and the second one allows me to set my schedule, so I get to arrange work around my gym time (unless there's some crazy emergency). I agree with your sentiment about being healthy at a lower bodyweight... I've got the full set of medical problems stemming from years of inactivity and generally being a fatass. While I can't say that strength training has made them all go away, all of them are in much better shape as a result of me lifting weights and losing the weight that I have lost (even if I could stand to lose some more).
Member
I believe, he prescribed it to you for reducing risk of complications because of high blood sugar, which can begin before the condition is developed to a REAL diabetes.
Member
Thanks for providing the details. Very impressive progress even without the complications of metformin. Even though a beginner can get stronger without really adding muscle mass, you surely got beyond that beginning stage and put on significant muscle mass despite the metformin. Your story does seem to show that the effects of metformin on building muscle are not horrible.
My case is a little different than yours. I assume I'm older than you; I'm 53. At an older age, getting stronger is harder. I didn't start metformin as a beginner, but rather after four years of lifting. In 2013 I started with a deadlift of 130kg, squatting 3X5 80kg, and I wasn't able to bench due to a severe tendonitis in where my pecs connect to the humerous (because I stupidly overtrained at age 49 on my first day in the gym in decades). I recently deadlifted 210kg and squatted two triples of 160kg, and I peaked out about a year ago benching 110kg 3X5 (since then the tendonitis got aggravated again, and so I'm sticking mostly to whimpy sets of 80kg X10.
The main point is that at my age and at my stage of development after four years of training, I'm not so far away from my potential limitations. That being the case, the metformin totally derailed my progress. I couldn't get a single triple of 160kg squat. And it wasn't due to lack of energy; my muscles were giving out. Instead of getting stronger from one work out to the next, I actually got weaker; very frustrating. In your case, when you started the metformin, you were so far away from your potential maximum strength, that the negative effects of metformin didn't prevent you from progressing. Nevertheless, your detailed account sheds light on the negative effects of metformin, that it's not so disastrous. Thanks for responding and enlightening the subject.
That's why I began this thread. I'm hoping someone can give me some ideas of alternatives to metformin, such as natural insulin sensitizers that could help my blood sugar levels without harming muscle recovery (such as Berberine, magnesium, and ginger)? In the mean time I'm still hoping to get stronger, so I'm off the metformin. Obviously I could push off developing diabetes by losing body fat; at some point I hope to make that a top priority again, but it's hard without being able to run.
TMPHBITEU
How about you try eating almost no carbs for a while, as an alternative to metformin?
Member
That works for lowering blood sugar and for getting rid of body fat, but it's hard to live like that long term:
1. One feels starved most of the time
2. Lifting sucks without glycogen reserves
3. Recovery from lifting is not as good as with carbs.
Hence my question: what are some natural insulin sensitizers that could help my blood sugar levels?
Personally I am careful to keep my carbs under 40% of my total caloric intake... that's considered moderate low carb. And when I'm pushing myself to lose weight, I try to go very low carb and get more aerobics. Nevertheless if I could attain greater insulin sensitivity I would have a better life... I lost 2kg effortlessly while on metformin, and I enjoyed carbs without worry, and didn't feel hungry even when eating less.
Posting Permissions