What sport replaces the NFL?

[Matt-Panz]

c. *If* being a fan entails loyalty to the players on your team, I would think that would require some kind of effort to understand and support them in their protest.

2. Why is kneeling during the anthem a sign of disrespect or irreverence to the flag and nation?

No people like to watch these freak athletes hit each other and chase a leather ball - people don't care about players emotions and intellectual insights. As a football fan, I don't want to support anyone to protest anything, I want to see Vontaze Burfict take someones head off.

And the second part of your statement has to be a joke.

You're kinda like the lebron james around here.

My intellect is equivalent to Lebron james' basketball skills? Wow thank you so much. Ha.

[tbennett]

I am rather confused at the ironic twist on perception of insult/ irreverence - on the one hand, the modern American left seems to have become enamored of the idea of "microaggressions," things that are said without ill intent or malice, but nevertheless are perceived as insulting by some, and then the speaker of necessity must apologize for the hurtful statements. And yet Kaepernick has clearly offended a large group of folks with his actions/statements, but the response of the left is "He didn't mean to be insulting, and you need to get over it," which is exactly the sort of thing that seems to enrage people when used as a defense of a microaggression.

[rwrjr]

NFL players, on game day at the stadium, are in the workplace. They are working in front of us, their paying customers. Their team ownership and management are their bosses and pay these players to perform in front of a live audience.

I don't know about you but I certainly can't go to my workplace and take a knee or hold my fist up at the start of a meeting, or even worse in front of my companies customers. I cannot spout off about my political or social viewpoints in front of the people who pay my bosses for my services. Name me any other business where an employee feels free to offer their unfiltered opinions in front of paying customers while on the clock. Name just one. I ask then, why is the the NFL some special kind of snowflake workplace where this behavior is okay. The reasons behind their behavior are irrelevant. It is inappropriate plain and simple.

It doesn't matter whether I agree or disagree with their positions. There is a time and a place for such discussions, your own time, your own place. Have reporters over to your house and have at it, I'm cool with that. Kaepernick is certainly entitled to his opinions and entitled to discuss them anywhere he likes outside of work. More power to him. But since NFL owners don't have the spines to discipline what clearly is inappropriate workplace behavior it looks like it's up to the fans to vote with their wallets. It doesn't make the fans bigots or racists either. If I walked into a Best Buy and some blue shirt started in on anything remotely political, I'd about-face and never step foot in there again.

[tfranc]

Just a thought experiment:

How long would we have to go, with all statistics associated with a race (or any demographic division) being "negative", or "less complimentary" before we would be allowed to publicly admit that there was a real "difference" ?

Isn't "diversity" the holy grail of liberalism ?
And doesn't "diversity" mean "differences" ?
Don't "differences" also apply to intellectual capabilities? ...propensity for moral or unethical actions?....physical abilities...industriousness...creativity ...?

If you factually notice the well-documented "differences" are you AUTOMATICALLY a "racist" ?

Can any White person be openly proud of the fact that the White race really was "superior" in virtually every measure that any rational person would call "civilization", and ironically, it was mostly White, Christian, males who abolished slavery worldwide (including the USA) without being called a "White Supremacist" ?

Just wondering.

As a resident liberal... not leftist, liberal, I'll take this.

Liberals believe in equality of opportunity - that's really our holy grail. That's not to say conservatives don't want the same thing, but I'm not conservative, so I won't pretend to speak on their behalf.

While to some leftists acknowledging those differences can be perceived purely as racisism, the truth is that it's not sheer acknowledgement, but rather how that acknowledgement is used is where racism lies. In other words, if that acknowledgement disturbs the equality of opportunity, then it may be considered racist. Generalizations and stereotypes exist here, and while we will never be free from these in our own minds and others', understanding that they exist as sort of "brain tabloids" is the first step to combat them.

I'm proud to be white, I'm proud of who I am, my ancestors, etc. But I see that as different from being proud of some truly terrible atrocities that folks who happened to be white committed to other races. I believe we have to acknowledge the good with the bad with our past.

Do you see that neither activity has been or would be appreciated by people who just want to watch the fucking goddamn football game, and that potentially serious ramifications are now to follow?

But this is precisely why they chose to do it - because everyone just wants to watch the football game. They don't feel like the issues are being addressed, they feel like they're being ignored. Is kneeling during the anthem disrespectful? Yes, of course. But I don't think these guys knelt just to piss people off. They're doing it to fight inertia.

[cgeorg]

Do you believe that physical and psychological characteristics are not inherited?

I do. Are you arguing that being racist is genetic?

Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick intended to be reverent to the flag and the nation when he knelt during the National Anthem last year?

Yes, I do. It was after a conversation with a fellow NFL player and Green Beret that he decided to kneel instead of sit for the National Anthem.

This is what Nate Boyer, the guy who met with him said in an interview:
[Kaepernick] reached out and we were able to sit down together for a couple of hours before the last preseason game last year. It was really cool to hear him just listen, too, and be very open-minded, too, and [say] “Look, I don’t want to hurt you, I don’t want to hurt your brothers and sisters.” I showed him text messages of friends of mine and some of them were saying I was a disgrace to the Green Berets ’cause I was even meeting with him. And some of them were like, “I’m with you man but it really hurts me to see that.”

So when I talked to them, it was mutual. Me, him, and Eric Reid [said] “I think maybe taking a knee would be a little more respectful. It’s still a demonstration. You’re still saying something but, people take a knee to pray. So for me it was a common ground, at least, to start from.

I remember Mr. Kaepernick saying specifically that he was protesting the flag and the National Anthem. At any rate, would you agree that the net effect of this demonstration was interpreted as disrespectful by the vast majority of the fans of the NFL, and that this year's demonstration activity's purpose has become separated from whatever the media now says the original intent of Mr. Kaepernick's demonstrations was? As I mentioned before, if a white player decided to protest his interpretation of Mr. Kaepernick's protest by displaying a Confederate flag -- a symbol to many people of a protest against the modern leftist trend in American society, NOT a symbol of racism to many of these people -- would you agree that this would in fact be interpreted by many if not most people as an inappropriate expression of ideology before a football game? Do you see that neither activity has been or would be appreciated by people who just want to watch the fucking goddamn football game, and that potentially serious ramifications are now to follow?

Here is what he said specifically:

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color

That's protesting oppression of black people and people of color, via a refusal to stand. It's not protesting the flag. And again, you're inventing something else to argue about. Kaep didn't stand there holding a BLM flag during the anthem. If a white player took a knee in protest of whatever White cause he wanted to, I don't think we'd be talking about how he disrespected the flag. We'd not be talking at all, or we'd be talking about how we agree/don't agree with his cause. Which doesn't get to happen with issues that POC try to raise because they're ignored until they protest in a way that demands attention, only to be told they're Doing It Wrong.

Just a thought experiment:

How long would we have to go, with all statistics associated with a race (or any demographic division) being "negative", or "less complimentary" before we would be allowed to publicly admit that there was a real "difference" ?

Isn't "diversity" the holy grail of liberalism ?
And doesn't "diversity" mean "differences" ?
Don't "differences" also apply to intellectual capabilities? ...propensity for moral or unethical actions?....physical abilities...industriousness...creativity ...?

If you factually notice the well-documented "differences" are you AUTOMATICALLY a "racist" ?

Can any White person be openly proud of the fact that the White race really was "superior" in virtually every measure that any rational person would call "civilization", and ironically, it was mostly White, Christian, males who abolished slavery worldwide (including the USA) without being called a "White Supremacist" ?

Just wondering.

Adding the smugness to the racism actually makes it come off a lot worse, honestly. The quotation marks are cute tho.

Do tell, which race has "all statistics associated with [it] being negative or less complimentary"? You also seem to have a very white-washed perspective of history, or else your definition of whiteness is incredibly inclusive.

[Strega]

Do you believe that Colin Kaepernick intended to be reverent to the flag and the nation when he knelt during the National Anthem last year?

Yes, I do. He was thoughtful about it, he started with sitting and was influenced by a US veteran to kneel rather than sit.

FACT CHECK: Did A U.S. Veteran Influence Kaepernick's 'Take a Knee' Protest of Police Brutality?


Do you believe the 1st Amendment requires you to be reverent in order to engage in protest?
You either support free speech or you don't. I'm sick of liberals crying about hate speech in Charlottesville and rednecks crying about a football player taking a knee.

[jamesfromphoenix]

What would you say about the exercise of "free speech" if a white player took the opportunity to display a Confederate flag during the National Anthem? I think you'd suddenly come to the realization that 1st Amendment rights are not at all the issue here.

I could not have said it any better.

[Ivey]

I remember Mr. Kaepernick saying specifically that he was protesting the flag and the National Anthem.

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.
— Colin Kaepernick, former San Francisco 49ers quarterback, Aug. 26, 2016

[Alexander Rix]

According to The Washington Post, there were 45 unarmed people killed by police in 2016. Of those 45, 22 were white and 17 black. Once you adjust for size of the populations, that's 27.75 and 134.9 respectively. That's 4.8 times more likely. Of course, you could weigh this in more sophisticated ways, but I suspect the number will still be quite a bit higher than 1


Kap originally stated that

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color ... To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.

nfl.com

[John Bono]

I think what happens the next few weeks will be interesting. I think one of two things will happen:

1. Since Trump and supporters demand people stand up, and NFL is losing those fans, NFL might require athletes to stand up or stay in the locker room for the anthem. If this happens I think the players union could possibly go on strike - or at least a large portion of blacks might go on strike.

2. If NFL doesn't do anything I think they'll just take a huge hit, lose a lot of money, and quite never be the same again - I could see some teams being sold for losses.

The NFL in the past 20 years has made a crapton of money. However, in the past 10 years they have become progressively greedier, dumber, and less respectful of the fans who ultimately pay their salaries. The NFL could have body-slammed Kaepernickism into oblivion last year simply by doing what the NBA did in 1996. A player for the NBA refused to stand for the national anthem. The very next day, they announced that he would be suspended until he was willing to stand for the anthem. He was suspended for one game, and that was it. No NBA player has sat for the anthem ever since.

The owners and players are about to learn something that even our dogs understand. Don't shit where you eat.