Hex Bar

[Pluripotent]

Reciprocity?!
Unrequited compliments;(
Validate me, please!

[madmaxaus]

?

There are two studies that show that a person can lift more with the hex bar, than with the straight bar. .

This actually brings up an important point. Not about the results of either study, but how the study was conducted. More often than not I read studies that fail to describe exactly what is being done. For example, how was each lift performed? How was each lift actually defined? How were the participants instructed to perform the task? If it's a case of, as I suspect it is, that they were shown or coached how to do the lift, and then each participant was allowed to perform the lift slightly differently, then how can we possibly consider the data reliable? This is a huge flaw in a lot of research in this field.

[Scaldrew]

Reciprocity?!
Unrequited compliments;(
Validate me, please!

The first haiku was the best one so far. Mr. blues' haiku wasn't bad. Mr. Crom's, well...

[Jonathon Sullivan]

?

This actually brings up an important point. Not about the results of either study, but how the study was conducted. More often than not I read studies that fail to describe exactly what is being done. For example, how was each lift performed? How was each lift actually defined? How were the participants instructed to perform the task? If it's a case of, as I suspect it is, that they were shown or coached how to do the lift, and then each participant was allowed to perform the lift slightly differently, then how can we possibly consider the data reliable? This is a huge flaw in a lot of research in this field.

Good questions all; good observations all; none of which get to the actual point. Why do we give half a purple nanofuck that somebody is able to lift more with a hex bar? This has already been shot down by Andy and Brodie, and very effectively. And why are we trying to explain, again, in 2017, why a deadlift "that doesn't put as much stress on the back" exactly and precisely misses the entire point?

We don't do hex-bar deadlifts in our model of training. This is not because, oh wow, we never heard of them, if only someone had told us they were out there. People have actually, you know, thought about this. People have actually had experiences and made judgments. We get terrific results with standard deads, we and our clients get stronger, and we have pretty solid rationale discussed ad nauseum for why this is so. If somebody doesn't like it and they have a real hard-on for hex bars, then they are absolutely free to go fuck around with hex bars and get very good at the-movement-that-recapitulates-putting-on-very-heavy-pants, leaving the rest of us benighted souls to keep training ourselves and our clients in an exercise that has stood the test of time and is used by the strongest people in the world.

And there was a winning haiku, FFS.

So at this point we're just doing a circle jerk for somebody's perverse amusement.

[blues]

The first haiku was the best one so far. Mr. blues' haiku wasn't bad. Mr. Crom's, well...

Completely agree. Mine was but an homage to the one that came before.

If the good doctor would keep to his earlier promise, the thread might rightly be euthanized at this juncture.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

Completely agree. Mine was but an homage to the one that came before.

If the good doctor would keep to his earlier promise, the thread might rightly be euthanized at this juncture.

It was a suggestion. Not a promise. I'm not TMPHBITEU.

[teddyd]

get very good at the-movement-that-recapitulates-putting-on-very-heavy-pants

This = hilarious LOL

[Will Morris]

This = hilarious LOL

Dr. Sullivan is a national treasure.

[OZ-USF-UFGator]

Good questions all; good observations all; none of which get to the actual point. Why do we give half a purple nanofuck that somebody is able to lift more with a hex bar? This has already been shot down by Andy and Brodie, and very effectively. And why are we trying to explain, again, in 2017, why a deadlift "that doesn't put as much stress on the back" exactly and precisely misses the entire point?

We don't do hex-bar deadlifts in our model of training. This is not because, oh wow, we never heard of them, if only someone had told us they were out there. People have actually, you know, thought about this. People have actually had experiences and made judgments. We get terrific results with standard deads, we and our clients get stronger, and we have pretty solid rationale discussed ad nauseum for why this is so. If somebody doesn't like it and they have a real hard-on for hex bars, then they are absolutely free to go fuck around with hex bars and get very good at the-movement-that-recapitulates-putting-on-very-heavy-pants, leaving the rest of us benighted souls to keep training ourselves and our clients in an exercise that has stood the test of time and is used by the strongest people in the world.

And there was a winning haiku, FFS.

So at this point we're just doing a circle jerk for somebody's perverse amusement.

Not being a smart ass here, but what about the SS pillar that the exercises that allow you to move the highest amount of weight through the longest range of motion, using the most muscle mass will cause the greatest strength increase? Given this logic, if one were to lift more weight using the hex bar low handles than he/she can with a squat or deadlift, wouldn't this translate to a stronger body?

Let's take two hypothetical two twins (identical DNA) who ran a strength training program like SS, followed by a HLM and Twin A used conventional DL, twin B used the hex bar and all other training/diet were identical.

Both trained for a year and end up at

Bench 300
Squat 400
Overhead Press 185
Deadlift 500 (twin A, conventional) , 550 (twin B, hex bar/low handles)

Is twin A REALLLY stronger than twin B? Will the carryover to sports performance be significantly different?

[spacediver]

Not being a smart ass here, but what about the SS pillar that the exercises that allow you to move the highest amount of weight through the longest range of motion, using the most muscle mass will cause the greatest strength increase? Given this logic, if one were to lift more weight using the hex bar low handles than he/she can with a squat or deadlift, wouldn't this translate to a stronger body?

Let's take two hypothetical two twins (identical DNA) who ran a strength training program like SS, followed by a HLM and Twin A used conventional DL, twin B used the hex bar and all other training/diet were identical.

Both trained for a year and end up at

Bench 300
Squat 400
Overhead Press 185
Deadlift 500 (twin A, conventional) , 550 (twin B, hex bar/low handles)

Is twin A REALLLY stronger than twin B? Will the carryover to sports performance be significantly different?

I would grant you that if someone could hex bar deadlift (using low handles) more than they could conventional deadlift, then the hex bar deadlift may be a better option if the only movement they trained was a deadlift.

But it's also key to understand that if one had to choose between low handled hex bar deadlift and a squat, the squat would probably be the better option, even if they could hex bar deadlift more than they squat. The reason for this is because the vertical bar displacement in a deadlift is smaller than that of a squat (I think this is true for most anthropometries). Smaller vertical bar displacement means less aggregate ROM across the involved joints.

Finally, the hex bar deadlift (low handled or otherwise) doesn't train the back as effectively as the conventional deadlift. The mechanics of the conventional deadlift means that it is more likely that the back (transmission) will be the bottleneck rather than the hips and knee extensors (engine).

If the above statements are true, then there is a good argument to be made that a rational strength training program would include squats and conventional deadlifts, and exclude hex bar deadlifts. Inclusion of hex bar deadlifts may be rational, but not for any of the above reasons.

My earlier post in this thread touched on some of this already (#135).