And our point is that the same thing could be said for a Nautilus Machine.Originally Posted by OZ-USF-UFGator
Member
Sounds ~right, assuming one trains properly, is in the correct demograph, is healthy and maintains an injury free state. it took me 3 years, but I tore a hamstring really bad in high school and re-tore it deadlifting way too much weight in the middle of SS I could barely walk, could not jog and deadlifting was out of the question for 10 months.
The road from 500 to 600 is a real bitch though, especially at 45.
My point is this: if someone finds a 405 pound Hex dead easier than a 405 pound conventional deadlift (say, for a max set of 5 reps), then that person can bump the Hex bar up to reach his max 5-rep of 450 pounds. If he progresses from there, then he will get stronger. By the time that person can hex dead 600, he person is strong. His body is strong enough to lift 600 pounds off of the floor. If h uses more quad and less glutes/hams to do so, doesn't make him less strong.
Would that person have been stronger learning to engage his glutes and hamstrings more? I'm not a coach so I'll take your word for it that the answer is yes. But someone ho can hex bar deadlift 600 pounds qualifies as strong and he is stronger than someone with a conventional deadlift of 405. This is regardless of the fact that someone who can conventional deadlift 600 is stronger. Like I've already stated, I'm a believer of conventional deadlifts, those are my bread and butter strength exercise and I am pretty certain I am vey close to 550 now + _ 3-5% (beltless and in socks, but with wrist straps, on a bar at the Y that doesn't camber or flex much at all).
TMPHBITEU
And our point is that the same thing could be said for a Nautilus Machine.
Starting Strength Coach
It wasn't my finest hour, but in the middle of my travels a few weeks ago I had no choice but to train at a very small gym in New Mexico. All they had were dumbbells and some nautilus machines, and a solitary smith machine. I found it remarkably easy to deadlift 650# on the Smith Machine compared to conventional deadlifting 500#. Because of this, I will now only train with the smith machine because the appearance of lifting more weight is most important aspect of training.
Starting Strength Coach
Member
Comparing a Smith machine to a free weight exercise to make a point is a miss-analogy. Are you guts honestly proclaiming that smith machine deadlifts are equal in value to hex bar deadlifts in terms of overall strength building?
TMPHBITEU
How is it that you guys are not tired of this stupid shit by now?
Starting Strength Coach
I was tired of this stupid shit a long time ago.
Member
I completely agree, comparing a smith machine to a free weight hex bar deadlift is fucking stupid shit, indeed. Making fun of someone who poses reasonable arguments that the hex bar can be used to make the body strong is beyond stupid shit, its just mean spirited and perpetuated the stereotype of the asshole meathead weightlifter.
Oh and to all three of you who have decided to make me the target of your 10th grade "Im a jock and I'm going to give you a wedgie in the locker-room " behavior, how much experience do you have actually using a hex bar? And it would also be great if you could unambiguously aver that someone who uses hex bar as his only form of deadlift and can deadlift 600 pounds is not strong.
And...finally, Rip, you really shouldn't be such a fucking dick to people you don't know. I just recommended your book to 2 people who bought it LAST week (co-worker, boss) and a guy at the YMCA who is going to request the local library buy it. In fact, I've recommended your work so highly that 7-8 people have bought on my recommendation over the past 4 years. And that isn't even including the 3 who I influenced to buy barbell prescription and several to buy PP.
You're a fucking douscehbag for treating loyal customers like this for posing reasonable arguments and trying to get a better understanding of strength, in the general sense. You don't know EVERYTHING, and you shouldn't default to fuckheaded-ness when someone (god forbid) challenges your dogma in an attempt to get a better understanding.
Yes, I called you a Douche. My name is Thomas Slawsky, so you don't think Im hiding behind an internet handle, I'm on Facebook if you need to contact me.
TMPHBITEU
That's your last post on my board, Mr. Slawsky.
Member
This is a very interesting, very funny thread. Rip, I think all your arguments have made perfect sense and the only reason you are being "douchy" or "fuck-headed" to some people in this thread is because they continue to give the same reasons why they think the hex bar isn't inferior even after those reasons have been rebuttled.
So instead of calling you a douche im going to give you some encouragement: You keep doing you, Rip. Some people have thin skin.
I'd like to see a video with in depth analysis of the two lifts just to settle this discussion once and for all. Might be my next project
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