Predicting Stages of Training Advancement

[mdillon]

Coach Rip,

I recently posted a reply on the hex bar thread asking a self-proclaimed intermediate how much he lifts. My main point was to determine if he actually had opinions that were worth listening to and not to claim that strength levels definitively determine level of advancement.

Is it reasonable to think that asking someone how much they lift is a way to get a general idea of their advancement? I know there are are more details necessary to truly determine it. I kind of think it is similar to asking someone what their BMI is to determine if they’re obese. Is it the most accurate way? No. But it generally works. What are the chances of an adult male with a BMI of 32 being lean and muscular. What are the chances of a healthy adult male reaching the intermediate level with a 200 lb deadlift? Is there a typical range of strength that most people will reach when they enter the intermediate stage?

Dare I ask, is it possible that you've answered this question with your strength standards table? For example, if a 220 lb adult male deadlifts 351 lbs is it reasonable to predict he's in the intermediate stage of training?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Strength is one data point in the assessment -- but not really the most important. The level of training advancement is determined by the individual's training history, and its affect on the stress/recovery/adaptation cycle. One of the problems with The Tables (and why they have been such a pain in the ass) is that people conflate the two separate concepts of training advancement and strength level. I have trained novices that finished their novice progression in the mid-500s, and novices that finished in their mid-200s. It is not reasonable to predict intermediate status from numbers, because of all the factors that influence the stress response.

[mdillon]

Thanks for the response. I guess my problem is that I correlate my own personal numbers to the advancement levels and then assume it's the same for all.

[tfranc]

I don't mean to start a tangent, but who's the freakiest guy you've ever trained? Was it Bryan Fox perhaps?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Fox, Greg Henderson, or Owen Kelly. All of them in the 99.9th percentile.

[Pluripotent]

Thanks for the response. I guess my problem is that I correlate my own personal numbers to the advancement levels and then assume it's the same for all.

You mean that people falsely extrapolate from their limited personal experiences as though they're relevant to the broader population? Imagine that!