Sully: Strength and Endurance

[AndrewLewis]

Warren, I think Dr. Sullivan's point is that he doesn't work in the trades. He just trains. And he has sufficient work capacity to put in a rough day even though he doesn't make a living with his back and his hands. I think Dr. Sullivan will tell you that guys in the trades should train so that they have enough gas left at the end of the day to do more than just try to recover for the next one, and so that they don't hurt themselves as they get older in the trades as their strength levels decrease and the job stays just as hard.

The other thing is that a novice getting into construction, for example, will see drastic increases in strength and work capacity in the first few months of his employment. However, because his work load doesn't change significantly at work, that will be the easiest it ever gets. It will never be easier just from the stress at work.

Training in the gym will allow the stress-adaptation cycle to make the construction work easier, because you can continually increase the stress in a training environment, but not as easily or effectively in a construction environment.

[muntz]

I dunno. But I do know that I disassembled and moved my entire fucking gym yesterday, which included carrying heavy racks, bars, and plates down four flights of stairs and up into a truck with my intern, Frank, and a few other very dedicated clients. We then unloaded that truck full of heavy shit and reassembled our gym in the new facility. In one day, in two 4-hour stretches of continuous physical effort. The phrase work capacity kept springing to mind.

We didn't die. We didn't get hurt. We got a little winded after a few hours of moving shit down the stairs. We needed a really big lunch. We woke up a little sore today, and went and bought and loaded and unloaded a bunch of plywood. I christened our new Prowler track before I locked up the new gym for the night. And still didn't die.

We're in our late fifties, and it just wasn't a big deal. We could have gone harder for longer*. Frank kept joking that it was, after all, his Recovery Day, and my Light Day.

So I don't know my VO2max or my 5-mile run time, but I think I met and even exceeded the not-inconsequential physical demands of my life and environment, which if memory serves is the definition of "fitness." I feel like whatever I'm doing, it works. YMMV.





*That's what she said.

I had a similar thing when I moved my apartment in 2 days and had to take a bunch of stuff to the Goodwill. I carried large chairs and tables down the street, used a hand truck to move a mattress and boxspring. my wife was incredibly impressed how i kept moving heavy stuff, climbing stairs, etc without stopping. But -I like measuring strength (1rm, 5rm). It is through measurement that we know we are (or arent) getting stronger. I'd love to measure cardiopulmonary fitness as well.

[slhuckstead]

I dunno. But I do know that I disassembled and moved my entire fucking gym yesterday, which included carrying heavy racks, bars, and plates down four flights of stairs and up into a truck with my intern, Frank, and a few other very dedicated clients. We then unloaded that truck full of heavy shit and reassembled our gym in the new facility.

Where'd you move too? Same general area?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, that's what I would say, but I would always use more words to say it. It's a character flaw.

I like to think of it as my talent as opposed to your shortcoming.

"Work capacity" might be thought of as "amount of work accomplished in a period of time" ....that is defined as "power".
Cyclists (and apparently rowers) are very interested in power and have very accurate instruments for measuring it.

In things like lifting weights, the calculation would become much more inconvenient and messy, but it would still be possible to calculate power for a sufficiently motivated researcher:

Power = (Force * distance)/time So if you are lifting weights against gravity the force is the weight.

Let's say you lift 300 lbs a distance of 30 inches and do 10 reps in 30 seconds:
If I did the conversions to metric units correctly, that would be an average of 34 Watts.

If you did it in 10 seconds, it is 102 Watts, etc.

This is CrossFit babble. It is obvious that when we talk about "power" we are not interested in average work output over time, but in instantaneous peak power, as indicated by SVJ. We don't care how many kipping pullups you can do in 60 seconds -- we want to know how much you can clean.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

Where'd you move too? Same general area?

Yes. Nicer digs. No metabolic cart, though.

[Gerald Boggs]

On the tradesman subject.
As a blacksmith, if I'm to safely lift in the forge, I find I need to be able to lift three times more in the gym. Part of that is because whatever I lift in the forge, I'm lifting it to move it. I'm always a bit surprised at how heavy a 100 lb anvil feels when I have to pick it up and carry it to my truck.

[muntz]

I guess what I'm saying to/asking of Sully is that his gym move required strength AND endurance. We have fairly precise methods to quantify our strength. This forum may not be the place to discuss it but shouldn't there be some way for us to also quantify our endurance/cardiopulmonary health/etc?

I'm athlete of aging and I want to excel at all aspects of it. I know what my strength goals are. I know how to measure them. (I've even hired SS coach to help me with all that). I think its reasonable to come up with Specific and Measurable endurance/cardiopulmonary goals. Being "able to work all day lifting and carrying" is not a sufficient goal for strength, nor should it be for endurance.

Sorry. This is just something I struggle with.

[Crom]

This is CrossFit babble. It is obvious that when we talk about "power" we are not interested in average work output over time, but in instantaneous peak power, as indicated by SVJ. We don't care how many kipping pullups you can do in 60 seconds -- we want to know how much you can clean.

I was responding to the concept of " work capacity", and it was implied to be over a sustained period of time. How much you can clean would be "strength", or simply "ability to produce force over a very short time".
I am unfamiliar with "Crossfit babble" but I do power calculations a lot. 😉

[Toth]

I’m a roofer and I found that pre barbell training loading 20 bundles onto a one storey garage was an exhausting task, but since I have become stronger loading a full house roof is just a tedious pain in the ass. My back is no longer in pain every hour of every day either.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I was responding to the concept of " work capacity", and it was implied to be over a sustained period of time. How much you can clean would be "strength", or simply "ability to produce force over a very short time".

How much you clean is not strength, because not every strong man has a good clean. The clean displays power: (Fxd)/t, where t is a single event.