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Thread: Failure in our Education System?

  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
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    Isn't it better that the weak and useless perish
    I believe that we all should be availed the opportunity to maximize our physical existence. The first step in accomplishing this goal is first understanding that the body is capable of more than the average human is aware. You cannot blame a child for it's ignorance of such matters, but instead should look to remove that ignorance through the presentation of knowledge. If the "education system" is not the best place for this presentation, than perhaps the home? But what of the home where the parents are not in possession of this knowledge, or are incapable of presenting it properly as we have glimpsed in the "Failed as a Father" thread? Not everyone is cut out for teaching others, and perhaps to my fault as Rip stated earlier I place too much of the impetus for these tasks on the education system which is in place specifically for this but has clearly fallen short in many instances...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_888 View Post
    If this is true to you then you should thrive to become a worthy cockroach or tardigrade.
    Hardest creatures to kill, hoarder of knowledge through survival in the worst conditions, written in their DNA.
    Useful to spread life, even through space. You even may have tardigrade "living" on comets.
    "Weak", "useful", "strength", "survival" here may take widely ≠ meanings.

    Even in the most concrete interpretation, it's quite a cruel statement.
    Be you, a child, being bullied: at this point you may survive or not depending on someone else giving you a hand.
    W/o this "deus ex machina" you would perish as a useless fuckhead not strong enough to defend yourself for some reasons.
    W this "deus ex machina" you would survive long enough and maybe acquire strength, and find some meaning and usefulness.

    It's not clear by any mean, a priori AND a posteriori, if someone is or is not useless or weak and if it's "better" for the others for him to perish in most cases.

    For these reasons, I always choose to help when in doubt and reasonably sure that my intervention would not make things worse.
    Watching children drawing in water or stupidity is above my strength.
    Whenever possible, give a hand instead of watching and saying "muh, if he dies he's weak, if he survives he's strong".



    This drive does not come from nowhere: it can be transmitted.
    It can be lit up or extinguished.
    It can be perverted or corrected.
    It can be weakened or strengthened.

    "Think for yourselves or someone else will do it for you": when possible give a hand, it will probably be given back to you a hundred times because of network effect.
    The only absolute for men is reason. A cockroach is not a conceptual creature, it is pure instinct and therefore not comparable to men in any sense.

    A child requires support from a parent or guardian until they are of a sufficient age to be independent. Physical bullying is assault, we have laws to deal with that. Anyone is at Liberty to intervene and give a helping hand/charity/kindness if they so wish-as long as it is not seen as duty or obligation.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    I believe that we all should be availed the opportunity to maximize our physical existence. The first step in accomplishing this goal is first understanding that the body is capable of more than the average human is aware. You cannot blame a child for it's ignorance of such matters, but instead should look to remove that ignorance through the presentation of knowledge. If the "education system" is not the best place for this presentation, than perhaps the home? But what of the home where the parents are not in possession of this knowledge, or are incapable of presenting it properly as we have glimpsed in the "Failed as a Father" thread? Not everyone is cut out for teaching others, and perhaps to my fault as Rip stated earlier I place too much of the impetus for these tasks on the education system which is in place specifically for this but has clearly fallen short in many instances...
    Not everybody has ideal circumstances. Some of the greatest, sportsmen engineers, warriors, scientists, inventors and entrepreneurs endured some of the most neglected childhoods. Neither a good upbringing, nor a poor one guarantee anything. Public school systems, like all socialist systems, are incapable of providing high quality education. I think you are confusing education with skill training. Good education equips the student to educate themselves-once past the basics of grammar and mathematics. No one teaches a child to climb, jump and run. As long as there is a library, or a computer these days, then everybody has virtually unlimited access to the knowledge of how to improve ones physical abilities, health and skills. I have never yet seen a normal, healthy child who was not curious. It's schools that bash that curiosity out of them, then subject them to limited silos of skills education which relies on absorbing, then regurgitating a stream of facts to the satisfaction of a system designed to measure it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    [...]Not everyone is cut out for teaching others, and perhaps to my fault as Rip stated earlier I place too much of the impetus for these tasks on the education system which is in place specifically for this but has clearly fallen short in many instances...
    No need to be good at it anymore. thanks to YouTube and the efforts of the SS team and friends, you can have your own Pr. Rip when you need it most, day and night and potentially for decades.
    This is borderline magic: you can summon a Pr. Rip like Sauron would summon a Balrog, should someone "squats" above parallel.

    Assuming someone is conscious enough to know that he does not know anything about subject X.
    How to identify a Pr. Rip useful for learning subject X?

    Simple:
    Who knows X and how to teach it?
    Are there experiments that confirm his claims?
    Are their books/YT channels/trail of written and shared history of claims?
    Are there any absurdities/contradictions in his writings?
    Is it possible for him to suffer from telling B.S.?
    Is it possible for him to earn more from telling useful things?
    Is he surrounded by other girls/guys that verify the above too?
    Do other people of value from unrelated fields back him up with their reputation for observed results?
    Anything that would validate/invalidate the observations-hypothesis-experiments cycle.

    Anyone can now summon a Pr. Rip for subject X thanks to the Internet (btw, Net Neutrality is in danger, piss of the FCC as much as possible: not net neutrality no more summoning Pr. Rip)

    Now that we know that state schools are mostly crap, most of the time (see ref above from Gatto).
    Now that we can summon state of the arts Professors in about anything.
    Now that most colleges are out of reach for almost everyone.
    Now that we can even pay with currencies not controlled by the FED (cryptocurrencies).
    Now that we have Meetup to organise groups...
    How far are we from learning massively, collectively and in a decentralised manner?

  5. #15
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    Nockian the schools where you come from must be way different than the schools where I come from. By far the majority of folks I have known over the course of my life are products of the public education system and they are all capable of independent and critical thought. Aside for some bad decisions (and some just plain dumb asses) here and there they are far from the slaphappy gubbamint worshiping cog-in-the-machine empty-headed zombies you describe.

    All I wish was someone (preferably those who were implying ie the education system) would have let me know a long time ago that I'm not foreordained to be a skinny weakling by my shitty genetics anymore than I would be stuck being an illiterate innumerate, all it takes is the appropriate knowledge and effort...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    Nockian the schools where you come from must be way different than the schools where I come from. By far the majority of folks I have known over the course of my life are products of the public education system and they are all capable of independent and critical thought. Aside for some bad decisions (and some just plain dumb asses) here and there they are far from the slaphappy gubbamint worshiping cog-in-the-machine empty-headed zombies you describe.

    All I wish was someone (preferably those who were implying ie the education system) would have let me know a long time ago that I'm not foreordained to be a skinny weakling by my shitty genetics anymore than I would be stuck being an illiterate innumerate, all it takes is the appropriate knowledge and effort...
    Some accept the programming, others survive it and others are permanently damaged by it. Personally I was closer the the latter and only really sorted myself out about 3 years ago having suffered years of self-doubt and depression. I was certainly capable of critical thinking and often exercised that faculty, the problem was that I remained unclear and foggy. This led me to try all manner of hokey kokey woo woo in search of a solution. The same applied to strength training which I only found in the last few months-had I continued to be a woolly thinker, it's unlikely I would have understood that SST was anything of significance and likely taken up Yoga and aerobic callisthenics. I need only walk around town to view those who didn't make it free of the state school system, who didn't survive intact and I need only turn on the TV to view the politicians/scientists/artists/intellectuals who accepted the programming.

    The West is declining as a civilisation despite the much lauded state education system. It has neither made us smarter, nor stronger. The number who mistakenly believe they are awake, plus the number who remain sleeping, is overwhelming. Those of us who managed to battle our way to full clarity can do nothing for the majority and we understand the futility of trying. Those few that also battle through are very rare allies.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    Those of us who managed to battle our way to full clarity can do nothing for the majority and we understand the futility of trying. Those few that also battle through are very rare allies.
    if you make 10 people/year try SS and that one of the 10 does the same thing each year then the total # of people "touched" in 5 years is:

    year number of proactive SS "members" number of people touched by SS
    1 1 10
    2 2 20
    3 4 40
    4 8 80
    5 16 160


    So: 1 person and 5 years → 10 + 20 + 40 + 80 + 160 people = 310 people
    So: 100 person and 5 years → 31 000 people

    Since SS is UNKNOWN in the E.U. and I would bet in most of the U.S. compared to Gold Gym for example.
    So early adopters are not even close to being "conquered".
    Speculating about the "majority" is not relevant yet!
    Let's suppose that Chinese "early adopters" start to like SS... God, that would be huge.

    I mean, let's start small, 10 people/year with local meetups.
    Secondary effect: regular proper work each day compound to big gains.
    True with barbells, true with about just everything else: everybody win!
    So much for "state education", patching shit by know nothings!

    PS: Crossing The Chasm

  8. #18
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    OP I had the same experience as you in school. I, along with all my peers, teachers, and my parents thought being scrawny and un-athletic was an intrinsic, unchangeable thing. Fast forward thirty years, and I discovered Starting Strength. At the time one of my own sons was ten or eleven, and he was pretty small, around sixty pounds if I remember correctly. He saw me take control of my body, started doing bodyweight squats himself, drank a lot of milk, and went from being one of the smallest, weakest kids in his age group to one of the largest and strongest. He added thirty pounds to his weight, along with a few inches in height, in about nine months, coming up to ninety pounds and squatting with weight on the bar. He is now a teenager and has repeatedly displayed intentional control of his size, strength, and body composition, something very few in his age group can do.

    Word gets around.

  9. #19
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    Got home and asked him. It was twenty pounds, not thirty, and he was eleven. He went from sixty to eighty pounds without becoming a marshmallow.

    TL;DR Scrawny kid adds one third to his body mass with commensurate strength increase after learning it was possible.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_888 View Post
    if you make 10 people/year try SS and that one of the 10 does the same thing each year then the total # of people "touched" in 5 years is:

    year number of proactive SS "members" number of people touched by SS
    1 1 10
    2 2 20
    3 4 40
    4 8 80
    5 16 160


    So: 1 person and 5 years → 10 + 20 + 40 + 80 + 160 people = 310 people
    So: 100 person and 5 years → 31 000 people

    Since SS is UNKNOWN in the E.U. and I would bet in most of the U.S. compared to Gold Gym for example.
    So early adopters are not even close to being "conquered".
    Speculating about the "majority" is not relevant yet!
    Let's suppose that Chinese "early adopters" start to like SS... God, that would be huge.

    I mean, let's start small, 10 people/year with local meetups.
    Secondary effect: regular proper work each day compound to big gains.
    True with barbells, true with about just everything else: everybody win!
    So much for "state education", patching shit by know nothings!

    PS: Crossing The Chasm
    Its a good business plan and I admire your ambition.

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