Question about Linear Progression and Micro-Loading

[Tony Moma]

Hello Mark,

I have a question about a statement Alan Thrall made on his Youtube channel recently.

YouTube

In the link above, he states that micro-loading is ineffective, linear progression doesn't last forever, and that at some point we have to leave "novice land" and move on from linear progression...but move on to what exactly? He seems to think adding 1-2lbs is a waste of time, but to my knowledge, our goal should always be to try to lift more weight (if possible) than the previous workout, even if just by 1-2lbs.

I get that people are physically unable to add the same amount of weight to a lift every single workout forever and ever. At some point, progression becomes less than linear...but that is still progression, and Alan seems to discourage that as well.

My questions are: 1) Do you agree that micro loading is ineffective, and if not, how do you suggest incorporating it? and 2) Once linear progression is no longer possible, what should be a lifter's aim from workout to workout?

[Mark Rippetoe]

My thoughts on programming are detailed and explained here: Practical Programming for Strength Training | The Aasgaard Company

[Scaldrew]

It behooves us to understand what is being said here in the proper context. Alan's audience is not the SS, Mark Rippetoe audience. Rip and many other SSCs have at many times and to great lengths discussed the ins and outs, pros and cons of microloading, all of which is still visible on this forum for anyone with the inclination to look it all up. Mr. Thrall is talking to the average person still interested in the "YouTube fitness community" (where lots of people have already opted out from due to boredom and samy content), an audience that probably has not read or will not read any of the many texts that come from this community. So for those people, getting them to switch from doing Stronglifts 5x5, or Starting Strength, or whatever, to more complex alleys of programming is probably going to be beneficial simply because of who they are. It's not true that they would make better progress this way because of some inherent biological differences (though the jury is still out on the origin of the subconscious), but rather that they will see the most results by switching programmes.

Were it anyone asking us this question here, we would ask them about their bodyweight and then urge them to add a hunnit pounds. Doing so is far simpler and far more effective in many of the scenarios to strength, health etc gains. But the audience on the YouTubes is never going to listen to that. They're going to be 175 at 5'10 forever. Not just for the next 5 years; forever. So if you want to make them happy, tell them about a sick new way of programming that'll give them 30lb on their stagnant squat and .2 inches on their epeen. Hey, it's free information after all. Just programme hop your way to success.

I'm not knocking Alan, though; he's a smart guy that knows bodyweight is (less than) just a number, evident by the fact he once ate 10,000kcal a day to bulk to 250lb or something to that effect. I expect him to know how this works. Microloading for him might also be suboptimal in the long run given his track record of breaking through barriers in eating in this way. If you're gaining a bunch of weight, you can shoot yourself in the foot by microloading your squat, deadlift, bench, or even press. And shiiiiiiiiiiiiet, if you're going to be intermediate for a long time, it can seem as though microloading merely prolongs the inevitable rather than facilitating necessary growth. But at the end of the day, sweeping statements about programming and training practices are best kept in perspective. Microloading got my pathetic press from 100 to 137. It got my lame clean from 125 to 142. I'm sure it did other great but not impressive things for countless other people, too, and somehow is still useful on things like 1RM attempts on the platform; things I'm sure Alan (and by extension, his SSC, Coach Dr. Baraki Sensei) knows everything about.

[blues]

Some of us older guys, (I"m 5'10, 175 lbs and 65 years young), don't want to gain a lot of weight while still trying to add weight to the bar.

Now, I'm not competing with anyone but myself (and the image I see in the mirror) and as long as I can meet life's demands, (like shoveling friggin' snow all day yesterday) without throwing up a white flag and manage to remain reasonably strong, I won't pitch a bitch. (That may change soon as my own LP approaches its end. I was one who had been "exercise" lifting for quite a few years and got back into adding weight to the bar a few months ago when I decided to see what I had left in the tank.)

Obviously mileage will vary depending on requirements. For me, microloading is a reasonable option (while it lasts).

[Austin Baraki]

OP, did you actually watch the video? Please provide the specific time stamp for where he "discourages progression".

He weighed the plates in his gym, found a variance in 45 lb plates of +/- 4 lbs, and suggested that if you're training in a commercial gym with non-calibrated plates, that bringing your fractional plates to microload 1 lb at a time might not be doing what you think it is.

He also said that microloading can be helpful for the upper body lifts, or for those who are too weak to press a standard barbell. And he said that when you're effectively done with the novice phase, you move on to intermediate programming.

[Espen Lund]

What the smallest feasible micro loading on LP for the lower/upper body lifts then?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I've used 1.5 and 2 pound jumps successfully for some of these clients for 25 years.

[blues]

I've used 1.5 and 2 pound jumps successfully for some of these clients for 25 years.

Thanks for that info, Rip. Now I don't feel so bad about using such jumps as I grind out the last days or weeks of LP. (I was wondering if I was secretly underachieving rather than avoiding succumbing to "greed".)

[DougBriggs]

I understand Alan" ate his way to 250" and made gains but I just watched Austin squat 600lbs at 196lbs........

[Espen Lund]

Thanks for that info, Rip. Now I don't feel so bad about using such jumps as I grind out the last days or weeks of LP. (I was wondering if I was secretly underachieving rather than avoiding succumbing to "greed".)

My guess is that if you progress less on novice programming than you would on intermediate programming, you are better off switching. That's at least my strategy for known when I will switch.