Groin tear

[Jr_Geezer]

You want me to go through and talk about how I've returned from orthopaedic injuries? I have a laundry list of those. Which one do you want? maybe you'd like to take a look at Matt Swogger's story one more time. Or, perhaps, you'd like to hear of the wounded warriors I've rehabbed that trained through unimaginable pain and absolutely horrific injuries. I understand these won't be completely analogous, because I can see how a groin injury or some back pain should give you pause to attempt to continue to train at a high level, whereas, someone with their leg amputated from bone cancer, or someone who took 7 Ak-47 rounds to their leg really have no choice but to train. Honestly, that was the whole point of my response. Some people look at training as a choice. A calculated risk taken after they have exhaustively analyzed the proposed benefit with the relative risk.

Some of us, however, training is not a choice. It is a necessity. I will likely struggle for the rest of my life to eek out some marginal strength gains compared to what I am capable of now, but, in the end, this is certainly a part of life where the destination doesn't mean a fucking thing to me. The journey means absolutely everything to me. I wear my numerous surgical scars like a badge of honor. Injuries happen. I understand that. I'd prefer not to get injured, but when they do happen, I welcome them. Injuries provide me with adversity and I've dealt with enough adversity in life that I am most comfortable when the chips are stacked against me. Injuries that occur under the bar also affirm that I was, at least, in the arena and the "credit belongs to the man in the arena".

Will,

My apologies. I most certainly did not mean to cast aspersions on your training, your life experience or the work you do with others and I am truly sorry if it came out that way. But please note that I did point out that I am currently training, adding weight to the bar every session, that I am "in the arena". And I have read many of the articles here about guys like Brian Jones and Matt Swogger. Those articles and numerous related forum posts are in fact the reason I haven't given up on training altogether. If I had not seen proof positive of the effect of barbell training on injuries far more severe than my minor setbacks, I would have no reason to think that I was doing myself any good by continuing to go to the gym (just have to convince my wife of the same thing as she doesn't want to see me limping around again). God's honest truth, I think about guys like Brian and Matt before my deadlift and squat worksets and tell myself what a pussy I am.

But, as you and others have pointed out, this really is a personal choice, how far to push things. I'm just looking for input to learn from others' experiences to help shape my decisions and my destination. I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I welcome injuries, though. :-)

Thanks again for the input.

-Rob

[Will Morris]

Will,

But please note that I did point out that I am currently training, adding weight to the bar every session, that I am "in the arena".

THIS. THIS IS EXACTLY why I took the time to write those responses when my default setting is to ignore a post like that. This. This is the single most affirming statement you could have ever possibly made in this setting. I knew that was in you. Notice I never directly accused you of not continuing to train. I made a broad statement, but I needed you to say this. Go back and read that statement several times...."I am training, adding weight to the bar every session. I am in the arena". And, don't ever doubt yourself again. You are doing it right. My hat's off to you, sir.

[Pluripotent]

You want me to go through and talk about how I've returned from orthopaedic injuries? I have a laundry list of those. Which one do you want? maybe you'd like to take a look at Matt Swogger's story one more time. Or, perhaps, you'd like to hear of the wounded warriors I've rehabbed that trained through unimaginable pain and absolutely horrific injuries. I understand these won't be completely analogous, because I can see how a groin injury or some back pain should give you pause to attempt to continue to train at a high level, whereas, someone with their leg amputated from bone cancer, or someone who took 7 Ak-47 rounds to their leg really have no choice but to train. Honestly, that was the whole point of my response. Some people look at training as a choice. A calculated risk taken after they have exhaustively analyzed the proposed benefit with the relative risk.

Some of us, however, training is not a choice. It is a necessity. I will likely struggle for the rest of my life to eek out some marginal strength gains compared to what I am capable of now, but, in the end, this is certainly a part of life where the destination doesn't mean a fucking thing to me. The journey means absolutely everything to me. I wear my numerous surgical scars like a badge of honor. Injuries happen. I understand that. I'd prefer not to get injured, but when they do happen, I welcome them. Injuries provide me with adversity and I've dealt with enough adversity in life that I am most comfortable when the chips are stacked against me. Injuries that occur under the bar also affirm that I was, at least, in the arena and the "credit belongs to the man in the arena".

All of this. But I might make one correction. Nobody actually has a choice. Everyone must train. The difference is that the guy that just got his leg blown off had a normal physical life until about 2 seconds ago, and he is exquisitely aware of the reality that he will undoubtedly live as an invalid for the rest of his life (more or less - depending on the injury) or he can train and perhaps regain something of that prior physical independence back that he had heretofore taken for granted. He has not had the gradual descent into chronic illness that characterizes much of our current society and habituates people to their disabilities. The grim reaper sometimes comes at you all at once, and sometimes only takes a piece at a time so that you hardly even notice if you are not paying close attention. But there is nothing more certain than that there will be pain. You can tell people this, and some of them can march their lives forward in their minds and imagine how they might like to be when they are old or when calamity strikes (because it's coming - eventually - for everyone). Others will maybe remember that they met you a long time ago and you mentioned something to them about barbell training but they thought it might exacerbate some old injury or another and they didn't do it, and now they have been virtually bed bound for 5 years and there is no one around who will take care of them and they are going to go to a nursing home, and wouldn't it be grand if they could actually get themselves off the toilet? So the question is, are you going to let pain stop you now and end up being that person staring at the ceiling for 10 years, with the highpoint of your day being when the overweight orderly comes in to give you a sponge bath and her scrub top gaps open a little and her boobs smash up against you when they roll you over to clean the dried up poop that's stuck to your rectum from sitting there most of the afternoon? Or are you going to accept pain as a precondition for life and train? Doesn't seem like much of a choice, really. Nobody can make your pain go away, but some people might be able to help you get strong enough to live through it.

[Jr_Geezer]

THIS. THIS IS EXACTLY why I took the time to write those responses when my default setting is to ignore a post like that. This. This is the single most affirming statement you could have ever possibly made in this setting. I knew that was in you. Notice I never directly accused you of not continuing to train. I made a broad statement, but I needed you to say this. Go back and read that statement several times...."I am training, adding weight to the bar every session. I am in the arena". And, don't ever doubt yourself again. You are doing it right. My hat's off to you, sir.

Well, thank you Will. That really does mean a lot to me. (I don't know how to write that without it sounding like sarcasm, but please be assured it's not)

-Rob

Making a bed makes as much sense as re-tying your shoes after you take them off. But you are right...this isn't about us. Great post!




I can speak for myself, I guess. I tore my hamstring a about three years ago deadlifting 385 for 5...damn thing tore in the middle of the fourth rep. I had previously deadlifted more than that for reps, so it wasn't some new heavy weight I was going for, and the lift itself felt good until it felt like someone kicked me right behind the knee.

I did the Starr rehab using mostly high-rep squats, but I threw RDLs in as well at Rip's suggestion. (Incidentally, I got to find out how embarrassing it is to deload a bar with 25 lbs plates when a very tiny woman was working in with me...) Five weeks after the injury, I was back to squatting my pre-injury weight (320x4).

The real mental block was deadlifting 385 again on a weekly progression, because it was hard to let go of the knowledge that I was injured the last time I did that same weight. I will admit, it was hard for me to approach the bar on that one. But I told myself that it was only 5 lbs heavier than my previous try, and I had previously done four plates for reps, so in reality this should be nothing. I did the lift, survived, and felt jubilation afterwards. 385 later became a warm-up set.

So, yeah, the mental block can be difficult to push through--I get it. But I also have learned that setting arbitrary "good enough" ceilings is a recipe for complacency and stagnation. In my experience training through several injuries (the torn hamstring being the worst of the bunch), the best way to "maintain" strength is to try to make progress. On the few occasions I've tried to "maintain," I just ended up getting weaker after a few weeks. I realize that my absolute strength level ebbs and flows with the occasions of life, some which is within my control and some which isn't, but my hope is that when I invariably end up trodding over the same path, it'll be a little easier the next time.

Brodie,

Thanks for relating your experience. I had the same feeling when I squatted 365 again for the first time after my adductor tear. Unfortunately I haven't gotten beyond that weight yet as the back problem cropped up just as I was getting ready to go higher. I think I'm slowly coming to terms with the idea of continuing to push through previous barriers though. Right now I'll just continue with my LP and see where that leads me. I was doing a variation of one of the HLM templates out of Barbell Rx and will probably go back to that when the time comes.

I've got 285 squats scheduled for tonight and I remember during my first run through LP I actually wrote a post here saying how I don't see how I could possibly get to three plates because 285 just crushed me. I don't expect any issues tonight with that weight as I've already gone down that path.

-RJP

[LimieJosh]

So, yeah, the mental block can be difficult to push through--I get it. But I also have learned that setting arbitrary "good enough" ceilings is a recipe for complacency and stagnation. In my experience training through several injuries (the torn hamstring being the worst of the bunch), the best way to "maintain" strength is to try to make progress. On the few occasions I've tried to "maintain," I just ended up getting weaker after a few weeks. I realize that my absolute strength level ebbs and flows with the occasions of life, some which is within my control and some which isn't, but my hope is that when I invariably end up trodding over the same path, it'll be a little easier the next time.

While I have had to deal with multiple injuries over the years, only two have come in the gym. Like you described, and like Rip described earlier, neither were experienced while doing something that would be remotely considered a limit effort or even particularly challenging. Just a few weeks ago, I got under the bar for a warm up set of squats, with 2 more jumps planned before my first work set, and felt my right hip/quad go as soon as I started ascending from the first rep. This was at 365, on the first rep, for a planned day of work sets at 405. The bruise had appeared by the time I was able to rerack the bar. Walking was painful the rest of the day and the following day. At day +2 I could not even get into the bottom of the squat properly, so decided to begin my rehab with a selectorized leg press machine (the decision was made that the pain would prevent me doing reps with the technical precision required of the rehab). By Day +3 I was able to squat. By day 6 or 7 I was moving enough weight that the reps I was required to do was actually taking a toll and making me sore (not injury sore, but too much volume sore). I dropped reps to enable to me to get quality reps in every day, and within 3 weeks was back to 365 for sets of 5.

This story is fairly common place, and it tells us two things. 1) injuries happen, and most often not at the times you might predict they would. 2) If they are muscular, you can recover pretty well and pretty quickly if you do the right things. This leads us to the conclusion that when you reach milestone moments in your progression do not waste any mental or emotional energy worrying about muscle injuries. If you train long enough injuries are inevitable, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they come as a result of these sorts of milestone efforts. And even if they do, so what, we have a process for progressing back to and beyond that point anyway.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Let's highlight this:

This story is fairly common place, and it tells us two things. 1) injuries happen, and most often not at the times you might predict they would. 2) If they are muscular, you can recover pretty well and pretty quickly if you do the right things. This leads us to the conclusion that when you reach milestone moments in your progression do not waste any mental or emotional energy worrying about muscle injuries. If you train long enough injuries are inevitable, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they come as a result of these sorts of milestone efforts. And even if they do, so what, we have a process for progressing back to and beyond that point anyway.

Write this on the wall.

[Bradley Gish]

Last year I sustained a few adductor/hamstring strains, but none were to the degree that I had to miss more than one session of my working set weights. I just managed to train through them, still able to set PRs in spite of them, and they eventually healed. So, is this the correct approach? It seems logical that if one is able to train through the injury, then they should, considering there isn’t much lost down time for rehab. But, does the injury still actually heal this way? Or should one apply the Starr Rehab Protocol every time they sustain a mild/moderate strain?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If they healed, you did the right thing, obviously. You made it heal in the context of being a functioning muscle.

[David Kirkham]

I'll add mine in. I'm 51.

Years ago I tore a hamstring during LP on a low 200 something squat. I called Rip and he told me about the Starr protocol and suggested I do dead lifts. This was a muscle belly tear and the back of my knee turned black and blue. I couldn't walk without a severe limp.

After a few days, I started rehab and I worked diligently for 2 weeks in hell. I think my last set of deadlifts was 225 x 25. I don't remember. I DO remember, however that I saw Jesus at rep 23 and Satan at rep 24. I'm still not sure how I got the last rep on the last set--I just pulled until I stood up. The pain of the rehab surpassed the pain of the hamstring.

Then, 4 years ago I woke up in a daze in a hospital bed drugged out of my mind. I had survived a massive heart attack. 2 weeks later I got back under an empty bar and began LP once again.

Last week I squatted 380x3, pulled 430x3 and PR'd a 250 press. I can't even remember what hamstring tore now...I think it was my right. I do remember my heart attack, however, because it scares the shit out of me every time I get under the bar. Seeing the inside of a nursing home scares me even more. What else am I going to do? Not lift?

My wife started with an empty bar 10 days after a major hernia repair. She squatted 95 3x5 and pulled 120x5 tonight--6 weeks post op. Getting under the bar scared the shit out of her too--but she did it.

Shit happens. One of the most important parts of training is you learn to deal with it and move on.