The "Academic Preparation" Book Club

[Mark Rippetoe]

Mr Rippetoe, As a reader of Robert Heinlein I know that you have the imagination to think or a reason or two why a Christer would want to be hard to kill.

As a Christer veteran of ground combat, here is one example I can think of: If you are a Christer killed in combat due to a lack of strength, not only is there one less trigger-puller, but if you had a leadership position, that means that one of your subordinates who is most likely less-qualified for your position must fill it, which exponentially increases the risk to your unit's survival, and also to the successful accomplishment of the mission. Also, it is a bigger kick to the gut for unit moral to send a team member home KIA as opposed to WIA. You put it this way: [If you put people not physically qualified in a ground combat unit], "Doing so will get people killed who otherwise might not be dead. "

For my fellow Christer fundamentalist simpletons out there requiring a chapter-and-verse Bible citation, here is Saint Paul circa 60 AD ruminating on the disadvantages to his comrades if he were killed (even though he would personally benefit):
Yes, and I will rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again. [Philippians 1:18–26]

RIP SGT Adam Ray, one of my men and fellow warriors killed on this day eight years ago.

Mr. Johnson, this is a very cool permutation of Christer doctrine, one that comports with logic and Western European traditions of heroism and bravery. There are, of course, Christer sects who disagree with you with just as much fervor. You may disagree with each other all day, but I do not care for either interpretation.

I respect your memory of Sgt Ray, but I'll ask you respectfully to refrain from injecting such a tragic thing into a meaningless internet discussion for the purpose of making a rather hollow point.

[JR Johnson]

Mr Rippetoe, people disagree with much fervor about all kinds of things, but just because people disagree with fervor doesn't mean that the truth isn't out there, or that the truth isn't knowable, or that the truth shouldn't be pursued with logic even on seemingly meaningless internet discussions. As an aside, if I found this discussion to be meaningless, I wouldn't be wasting my time with it.

You have built a career pursuing the most effective methods for people to use to gain strength. It sounds to me like plenty of people and institutions have fervently disagreed with you both about the value of gaining strength, and also about the most effective methods for gaining strength. In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter if people care for your methods or not...what matters is if your methods are true (ie work) or not.

You had asked why a Christian would "want" (a subjective verb) to be "hard to kill," and I simply responded with a reasoning that you admittedly found logical. I fail to see what difference it makes that someone, somewhere may disagree with me, or that someone doesn't care for my interpretation for some unspecified reason. As long as my response was logical, then I feel like I have accomplished my mission here.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Mission accomplished.

[John Watson]

Mr Rippetoe, As a reader of Robert Heinlein I know that you have the imagination to think or a reason or two why a Christer would want to be hard to kill.

As a Christer veteran of ground combat, here is one example I can think of: If you are a Christer killed in combat due to a lack of strength, not only is there one less trigger-puller, but if you had a leadership position, that means that one of your subordinates who is most likely less-qualified for your position must fill it, which exponentially increases the risk to your unit's survival, and also to the successful accomplishment of the mission. Also, it is a bigger kick to the gut for unit moral to send a team member home KIA as opposed to WIA. You put it this way: [If you put people not physically qualified in a ground combat unit], "Doing so will get people killed who otherwise might not be dead. "

For my fellow Christer fundamentalist simpletons out there requiring a chapter-and-verse Bible citation, here is Saint Paul circa 60 AD ruminating on the disadvantages to his comrades if he were killed (even though he would personally benefit):
Yes, and I will rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again. [Philippians 1:18–26]

Clearly, according to Christer doctrine, anything that happens in this world is comparatively insignificant, since our existence here is on average 70-80 years, and the alleged existence in the afterlife is infinity. Therefore the next world (with the wings and clouds and harps) is all that matters in the perspective of time. That is the real world. And strangely it's a perfect world (if you don't enjoy any of the numerous things classified as sinful).

It's remarkable how a perfect world where you live for infinity was created, despite the concept that a perfect world is impossible, due to a snake with legs was able to convince a woman to eat fruit from a tree that removed ignorance from a couple that a creator wished to remain ignorant. They were ultimately punished by having finite lifespans in an imperfect world, and yet infinite lifespans in a perfect world.

You'll have to forgive the non-indoctrinated for finding this the most utterly confusing, Byzantine logic system ever devised.

Not to mention both sides killing for undetectable deities.

The human mind is fascinating, by its simultaneous advanced and limited capacity. Utterly fascinating.

[Culican]

It's remarkable how a perfect world where you live for infinity was created, despite the concept that a perfect world is impossible, due to a snake with legs was able to convince a woman to eat fruit from a tree that removed ignorance from a couple that a creator wished to remain ignorant. They were ultimately punished by having finite lifespans in an imperfect world, and yet infinite lifespans in a perfect world.

You'll have to forgive the non-indoctrinated for finding this the most utterly confusing, Byzantine logic system ever devised.

Not to mention both sides killing for undetectable deities.

The human mind is fascinating, by its simultaneous advanced and limited capacity. Utterly fascinating.

I like the way Mark Twain put it in The Mysterious Stranger:

Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only
dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane - like all dreams: a
God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have
made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter
life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other
children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries
and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell - mouths mercy and invented hell -
mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths
morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who
created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of
honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites
this poor, abused slave to worship him! . . .
"You perceive, now, that these things are all impossible except in a dream. You perceive that they are
pure and puerile insanities, the silly creations of an imagination that is not conscious of its freaks - in a
word, that they are a dream, and you the maker of it. The dream-marks are all present; you should have
recognized them earlier.

[JR Johnson]

John W. and Culican, The truth is indeed stranger than fiction!

[Joe Heisey]

Clearly, according to Christer doctrine, anything that happens in this world is comparatively insignificant, since our existence here is on average 70-80 years, and the alleged existence in the afterlife is infinity.

But the choices you make here are not insignificant. Compare to Stioicism; control what you can, and don't worry about what you can't. To put life in the perspective of eternity is just to say that the things that happen to you aren't what really matter; it's about the kind of person you become, which has a direct carryover to eternity. An instructive way to look at the afterlife is as the result of a process of self-actualization; Heaven being the state of the self-actualized and self-aware individual, who has placed himself in harmony with the universe (whether it involves God or not). The person who chose to spend this life in the pursuit of pleasure/power/popularity rather than virtue will find themselves in a permanent state of being out of harmony with reality; this is called Hell. While the afterlife is placed at the top of our hierarchy of importance, it's also made clear in our doctrine that the person who lives according to the Beatitudes will be happy (=blessed) in this life as well. Look into the remarkably well-adjusted minds of people like Mother Teresa, Fr. Emil Kapaun, and Maximilian Kolbe, who not only sacrificed lower pleasures out of love for fellow man, but did it with a sense of humor and no martyr complex whatsoever.

Therefore the next world (with the wings and clouds and harps) is all that matters in the perspective of time. That is the real world. And strangely it's a perfect world (if you don't enjoy any of the numerous things classified as sinful).

"'It's all in Plato, all in Plato; bless me, what do they teach them at these schools?'"

It's remarkable how a perfect world where you live for infinity was created, despite the concept that a perfect world is impossible, due to a snake with legs was able to convince a woman to eat fruit from a tree that removed ignorance from a couple that a creator wished to remain ignorant. They were ultimately punished by having finite lifespans in an imperfect world, and yet infinite lifespans in a perfect world.

Well, no.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Fall
TL;DR: We were made free creatures, destined for eternity after a short period of development in a finite world. We freely placed ourselves into disharmony with the order of creation, despite knowing very well what we ought to be doing.

Not to mention both sides killing for undetectable deities.

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." -Matthew 22: 35-40

If you're killing people for disagreeing with you, YNDTP. So let's lay this argument to rest.

[Scaldrew]

We were made free

I'd insert a trendy thinking emoji, but the forum is too old and doesn't allow it. The concluding sentence to your post was also great. Oh, sorry, I meant grate. Or is it grating? Yes, that's it!

[George Christiansen]

Clearly, according to Christer doctrine, anything that happens in this world is comparatively insignificant, since our existence here is on average 70-80 years, and the alleged existence in the afterlife is infinity.

Well considering that most christians think that what they do here has pretty drastic implications for how their eternity goes I'd say their lifetime is held as much more significant than a intellectually consistent atheism.

The longer the consequences of an action the more important that action wouldd be, no?

Now of course many christians are certainly inconsistent in living with this in the forefront of their mind, but I'd say most people who think that this is all you get and then you essentially fade back into the lifelessness that you came from tend to live pretty pathetic and cowardly lives compared to what seems to me to be the most rational way to spend one's time in light of that belief too.

[Alex Ptacek]

I'd insert a trendy thinking emoji, but the forum is too old and doesn't allow it. The concluding sentence to your post was also great. Oh, sorry, I meant grate. Or is it grating? Yes, that's it!

Except we weren't made free... *GASP*