Dear Mark, I apologize.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The Dunning-Kruger Effect also burdens Physical Therapy. I forgot to mention that.

[tfranc]

The Dunning-Kruger Effect also burdens Physical Therapy. I forgot to mention that.

I see traditional PT as a method trapped by its own industry, much like the rest of the fitness world. There is a mystique and a witchdoctor-like reverence for those in practice, you can’t help but feel that if you’ve gone to see one. Most people seeking rehabilitation expect nothing less than the “movement” version of a miracle pill - easy to take and basically effective in a narrow sense. Changing that paradigm and making it marketable would appear to be an immense challenge. To ask those seeking rehab to lift weights.. to do what is hard, though however effective, asks them to leave behind their entitled right to their modern American identity in some weird way lol.
“People are Lazy” - Rip

But asking the usual PT, the keeper of that dogma to change is even harder than that. It’s like asking a priest to stop worshiping false idols.

[GammaFlat]

I tried this for years. Maybe now I'd have more success, since my arguments are better honed, more articulate, and more concise. Actually, the sad part is that increasing the logic of the argument might make it even less effective.

Thanks Andy, I’m kinda sick to my stomach right now.
I think strength programs are a bit like religion. We (SS folks) understand it differently.. as a group, I think we’re much more interested in hard facts – mostly because they’ve been made available to us. Because of the leadership of Rip, we’re swimming in a cauldron of unbreakable truths.

We expect others to look at things the way we do. For many of us (me included), strength training was more like black magic than science(before SS).

To “cast a wider net”, I think we need to speak in wider terms (depending on the audience). In these contexts I think we are too easily caught up in the minutiae. For example, do squats, deads and presses as opposed to more complex options... do 3x5, etc. We need to argue the more captivating and wider arguments: "The system works every time it's tried", “The average 16 year old kid can increase their squat by 60 lbs per month for several months.” These are easily provable facts – do we now have your attention?

The minutiae is absolutely critical information and where the foundational information lives. It’s just not good for discussion where you’re trying to convince someone to change their system. You are asking them to consider changing a "hundred" things instead of just one (the system). The implementation details are just that. Worry about them/discuss them after a commitment (which was obtained using larger truths).

The second problem is that they BELIEVE they’re right with what they’ve got. Beliefs are harder to shake than provable facts. They’re not in the “fact zone”. If we can get them there we can win. I believe in the Starting Strength method – but I can also articulate why it is better than anything else I’ve ever seen. I can also explain why other methods are less effective as many here can (again, credit goes to Rip and staff). Most high school football coaches that have lifting programs cannot go to the “deep end of the pool” on this. They are way out of their depth. That is why conversations are so quickly shut down. (Shit!!! Andy is right.)

Before my son entered high school, I spoke with the head football coaches of their respective candidate schools. Their answers to my questions were consistent. I said my son was doing a strength program that he liked and that it was effective (at 13, he was squatting 280 using SS). The story I got was that if your kid don’t work out with the team, he’s not gonna play. I think in truth this wouldn’t be reality (who would bench a very good player) but as Jeff Leonard mentioned: “So much good comes from the "shared suffering" that the weight room provides. ” The coaches were pretty much running with this concept and I agree with it. You don’t need reasons to divide the team – especially when you have such compelling ones ;).

I asked "Why 1 leg", that's it. I feel I gave a reasonable response to every one of his responses until he ultimately remarked about it being "my world", in other words, I'm the dumbass.

I'm going for more of the whole tamale (the entire lifting program). I guess I'm an even bigger dumbass.

[convergentsum]

GammaFlat i'll bet you an icecream that your son's coach believes that squats and deadlifts elicit incomplete strength adaptations. Don't be surprised if you can't persuade him otherwise with tweets!
It's a testament to the clarity and power of the blue book that so many of us have trouble remembering that most people don't know this, including us (or me at least) before reading Rip's explaination.

[Mark Rippetoe]

And I'll bet you a bottle of 8-year-old Willett that his coach doesn't know what "squats and deadlifts elicit incomplete strength adaptations" means in English. I think you're giving these people FAR too much credit. These are deeply stupid people, and if they weren't they'd have better jobs.

[GammaFlat]

GammaFlat i'll bet you an icecream that your son's coach believes that squats and deadlifts elicit incomplete strength adaptations.

And I'll bet you a bottle of 8-year-old Willett that his coach doesn't know what "squats and deadlifts elicit incomplete strength adaptations" means in English. I think you're giving these people FAR too much credit. These are deeply stupid people, and if they weren't they'd have better jobs.

I'll be getting no ice cream because the Willet is safe. I will, however, be looking for ways to upgrade the system.

Nothing you wouldn't expect, but in this gym...

• Squats are high bar and depth is not well monitored. One "real" squat day per week. Not 3x5.
• For squats: "look up to go up". The kids now all know the mantra.
• Deadlifts are not part of the lifting program.

One learns the "less visible locations" in the gym to do what you need after a while. shhhhh.

[convergentsum]

I assumed he was a teacher first and a coach second, that's how it usually works in Britain.
I read
"[one leg] forces you to strengthen [tissues] associated with the joint that maintain balance"
as a pretty clear implication that bilateral lifts overlook this tissue. What else could he mean? And how do i claim my Willett?

[pstein]

I'll just echo what everyone has already said: most HS S&C programs are shit. I played baseball in HS. Our "strength" program was P90x. I'm not joking. That was freshman year.

People complained that we didn't hit well enough.