The military and strength

[Will Morris]

If this continues, at what point may we stop holding the military in esteem?

Trust me, despite this article, there are still plenty of steely-eyed, barrel-chested dealers of death and destruction within our ranks.

[Sean Herbison]

About the same likelihood as having to run 5 miles. Yet that continues to be important, somehow.

No argument from me there. I can only speak with direct experience for the Air Force, but I think it's more about keeping people to a "military appearance" (stick-like, apparently) than actually caring about our capability. That, and cardio = health, obviously, and they don't want to spend as much on our health care.

Ah.. let’s rely on things that fail. Range finders and gps ...

Like I said, you should still be competent with a map. But as of this writing, I've had to rely on one exactly 0 times outside of training. Again, if you're in a specialty that requires it, different story.

I'm not saying lowering the standards in any way is a good thing, just that the implications of this particular thing no longer being a graduation requirement don't worry me that much.

If this continues, at what point may we stop holding the military in esteem?

The guys, or the bureaucracy?

While I much prefer the situation as it is to, say, the Vietnam era, since I can wear my uniform in public without someone chucking a beer bottle at me, I'd still settle for not assuming we're all heroes. It's a dumb assumption. Plenty of people just join up for a pay-check, not because they want to go protect everyone's freedom. And if we're all "heroes", it belittles those among us who actually earn that title.
/mini-rant

[Mark Rippetoe]

An excellent mini-rant.

[gadders]

Tangentially related, but I was listening to a Tim Kennedy podcast the other day, and he said they have men now that turn up to join the Police or Army that have never been in a fist fight in their lives. That kind of seems at odds with my school experience 35+ years ago.

[Bryan Dobson]

Sean certainly has more relevant and current insight and I can appreciate it.
I come from the "Every Marine is a rifleman" branch of service. Cooks, admin, mechanics.. they all have to be able to function in a rifle line platoon if needed. I forget that it is not a universal military expectation, as my military experience was entirely about killing and breaking shit and preventing others from doing the same.

Being able to call for fire on grid or azimuth, being able to locate yourself for extraction. Knowing if you are on the proper waypoint of your recon. Being able to identify and report enemy locations. All this and knowing how to do at least the two positions ahead of you in the hierarchy. I hope it’s not turning into the Postal service!

As for “just in it for a paycheck”. That is unsettling.

[FatButWeak]

The guys, or the bureaucracy?

I feel sorry for the guys - these are (for the most part) young men who believed they were joining an instituion with a great cause and a proud future. Certainly I mean the beuracracy....but if the guys are shaped/molded by the beuracracy, and if they are allowed to be soldiers even if they cant throw a grenade (or do other soldiery things that we hold in high esteem) at what point does the definition of "soldier" get so watered down so as to be not worthy of our esteem? Esteem is diffeerent from respect, by the way. I respect others until they do something worthy of disrespect....Esteem is somewhat higher than respect.

By the way...Im not such a prick that I cant be proven wrong on all of this...its just that I should not be able to be a better soldier than ANYONE...and based on what I continuously see, hear and learn of our military, there is a large and growing minority of it that seems pathetic.

[Joe Heisey]

It's very surprising how receptive people are to the idea of getting strong, even in the military. At least 50% of the military folks I've trained with are on some kind of lifting program. These people are pretty blase about their APFT time. Oddly enough, they also have a good APFT.
The problem is, we get taped. Officer in line to get taped looks really bad. I'm 20 lb over the weight limit and growing, so that's gonna happen to me. I'm just lucky to be a reservist, where they only bother us with that stuff every month or so.
But the message is sinking in...the more strong people permeate the military, the more folks will see how useful it is. My squad was happy to have me around for buddy/litter carries.

While I much prefer the situation as it is to, say, the Vietnam era, since I can wear my uniform in public without someone chucking a beer bottle at me, I'd still settle for not assuming we're all heroes. It's a dumb assumption. Plenty of people just join up for a pay-check, not because they want to go protect everyone's freedom. And if we're all "heroes", it belittles those among us who actually earn that title.

Though the people are the best thing about the military, IMO. Maybe not the same for all of us.

[FatButWeak]

Sean certainly has more relevant and current insight and I can appreciate it.
I come from the "Every Marine is a rifleman" branch of service. Cooks, admin, mechanics.. they all have to be able to function in a rifle line platoon if needed. I forget that it is not a universal military expectation, as my military experience was entirely about killing and breaking shit and preventing others from doing the same.

Being able to call for fire on grid or azimuth, being able to locate yourself for extraction. Knowing if you are on the proper waypoint of your recon. Being able to identify and report enemy locations. All this and knowing how to do at least the two positions ahead of you in the hierarchy. I hope it’s not turning into the Postal service!

As for “just in it for a paycheck”. That is unsettling.

Yeah. This. I don't doubt that some are "steely eyed and barrel chested killing machines" as someone said above, but it seems like there are loads of reports of our military containing significant numbers of weaklings and incompetents.

[Sean Herbison]

I come from the "Every Marine is a rifleman" branch of service.

Yeah, big difference there, and definitely a reason for more combat-oriented skill focus, including navigation.

As for “just in it for a paycheck”. That is unsettling.

Is it, really? Aside from conscription, a paycheck has probably been the driving force for the majority of military members for the last... ever, probably. Aside from that, while everyone in every organization would ideally be there because they 100% agree with and support the mission of that organization, you still need enough people to fill the positions. There's a spectrum from "only in it for the paycheck" to "would do this for free", and pretty much everyone is somewhere in the middle part, not on an extreme end.

I'm 20 lb over the weight limit and growing
...
My squad was happy to have me around for buddy/litter carries.

That lasts until you're the one getting carried. Nobody wants to carry me either.

[MarinePMI]

First off, throwing a grenade is not a big deal. Thumb safety, pull pin, throw grenade. If you want to milk it, fine. I just don't want to be standing next to you when the 4.4 sec fuse burns in 2. It's not that hard, and it's only dangerous in that it is Darwin at work, weeding out the dumb ones. The hardest I ever found it, was doing it while suffering from frost bite and hypothermia, and even then it cleared the pit far enough that we (me and the pit NCO) just got showered in mud (loved the French Alps, but damn it's cold in February!). The reason I (and several other Marines had frost bite and hypothermia, was that the young butter bar Lt. couldn't read a map, and what he thought was a 2 mile march to the firing range, ended up being a 8 mile march, in the snow/sleet (and we didn't have gortex back then, just field jackets and rubber gumby suits; neither of which worked for shit when marching in body armor/flaks). which brings us to the nest topic...

Secondly, GPS is not something you want to rely on. Sure, it is there, when we go pushing around third world countries, but with a peer adversary...yeah, that shits going to be gone about 3 mins after the balloon goes up. 90% of the satelites now are unhardened. Think about that for a second. Map and compass use are skills everyone should have, regardless of technology (I mean, we carried rifles, but still knew how to use knives, right?). It's like changing a tire. While I CAN call AAA to fix it, I still know how to do it myself.

As to the Army's changes...I guess they won't get to add an "Expert" shiny thing to their Class "A"'s now. (I never understood how they qualified "expert" with a grenade. You know, the whole "horse shoes and hand grenades" phrase kind of alludes to it's lack of precision. How do they rate "expert" for an imprecise weapon?) An "Army of One" indeed...smdh, more like an "Army of Individuals".

Okay, my rants done.