Rip et al: Intermediate and Advanced Training: A Few Ideas

[Travis Greer]

And more stress needs more recovery.

[Jennifer Williams]

I enjoyed this article and plan to begin the four day split when the time comes. Thank you so much for the guidance.

I read it yesterday, but had to come back and mention that I especially enjoyed the point made about lifting heavy loads being a “skill” that brings with it an “emotionally developmental component.” This is a huge benefit that comes with lifting. I think it provides some “drama” in the training. I’ve always appreciated that part of lifting. I struggle with it more on pull-ups than on lifts, and I have failed at lifts many, many times throughout the years. I can deal with the emotion for a few reps by thinking about how quickly the test will be over, but the longer they go the more the idea of failure sets in. Which is why I get it with pull-ups.

I compare this to my competitive swimming days as a kid. I won a lot of races, but was never naturally built for the sport (too short). The best thing that I learned from all of the races was how to fail. I failed a bunch too. One time I took breaths every single stroke because I went in trying to control my breathing (one breath per lap-which was a lot for a small kid). I came out of the pool to hear my dad yelling asking if anyone had an oxygen mask since I was obviously in need of air. It was hilarious. That was my favorite race since I learned so much about myself that day, the next race, the next day, etc.

These “skills” are transferable. They extend to our professional lives and beyond. Trying anyhow in the face of possible failure, embarrassment, a hit to our sacred egos. To me, this is the very best stuff of sports, in general, and lifting in particular. The drama-will he/she make the lifts today?

[Mark Rippetoe]

If volume is primary driver of hypertrophy and hypertrophy is primary driver of strength progress post novice, why focus on something else?

Sure, you will have to back off from bunch of heavy sets to tolerate the volume but you will get more practice for the lift. Sure, you will not be mentally prepared for heavy training at the time but you can start training heavy any time you want with volume reduction.

I'm sure this simple approach works but the question is what works better.

Stress is the primary driver of strength progress. And at some point -- sooner for you as your level of training advancement is lower -- that stress has to be specific to the adaptation you want. Has it escaped your notice that volume -- actually tonnage, because volume is just reps, and if you're not worried about the weight on the bar, just add your warmup reps and volume magically increases -- increased across the two overload events? How much practice do you need for your squats? And this simple approach has been working for decades. What does work better? For who?

How do we know the overload event in this example is the week and not the first session?

Because we designed it that way: the two elements of the stress are different, and they vary weekly. Decades of experience with this method with tens of thousands of lifters has demonstrated its effect.

[Ryan Hartigan]

Because we designed it that way: the two elements of the stress are different, and they vary weekly. Decades of experience with this method with tens of thousands of lifters has demonstrated its effect.

Wouldn't the program be just as effective if the overload event were the volume day? How can you distinguish between the two?

[whale]

Stress is the primary driver of strength progress.

Absolutely.

And at some point -- sooner for you as your level of training advancement is lower -- that stress has to be specific to the adaptation you want. Has it escaped your notice that volume -- actually tonnage, because volume is just reps, and if you're not worried about the weight on the bar, just add your warmup reps and volume magically increases -- increased across the two overload events?

Sure, but time frame increased from 48 hours to 7 days. You can do more in 7 days. For hypertrophy, the common practice is to look at the volume on a weekly basis because it gives you a picture with better resolution.

So if stress is what drives strength and strength is primarily driven by hypertrophy and hypertrophy is more closely related to volume than intensity, why generate stress from a less efficient source?

because volume is just reps

I think, in this context, it's more useful to count volume as reps which are > ~70%.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Wouldn't the program be just as effective if the overload event were the volume day? How can you distinguish between the two?

Practical Programming for Strength Training | The Aasgaard Company

Sure, but time frame increased from 48 hours to 7 days. You can do more in 7 days.

No shit?? Maybe that's why we do more in 7 days.

For hypertrophy, the common practice is to look at the volume on a weekly basis because it gives you a picture with better resolution.

Son, don't tell me about common practices, okay?

So if stress is what drives strength and strength is primarily driven by hypertrophy and hypertrophy is more closely related to volume than intensity, why generate stress from a less efficient source?

You keep saying "volume" as though it is a meaningful parameter in and of itself.

I think, in this context, it's more useful to count volume as reps which are > ~70%.

Do you? I'll keep this in mind.

[Ryan Hartigan]

Practical Programming for Strength Training | The Aasgaard Company

PPST contains the same presumption, not an explanation of why the volume day can’t be the overload event in this situation.

[Mark Rippetoe]

PPST contains an explanation of why the overload event is a week long. All three workouts are components of the overload event.

[wiigelec]

Wouldn't the program be just as effective if the overload event were the volume day?

Is a One-Lift-per-Day 5x5 an effective intermediate and/or advanced programming methodology?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Dunno. Not one of our programs.