Oly lifts in the SS novice

[Drcustals]

Hi coach, I am 43 yo, 225#, male who had some exercise experience in the past, but stopped 2 years ago due to back pain (3 disc hernias) and my medical boards exams. I started in January with the SS novice program and cannot thank you enough. My numbers went to working with only the bar to 240# on the squat and 245# on the deadlift in 2 months.

So here are my 2 questions, first, my form started breaking up in the squat so a friend coach told me to regress a bit on the intensity and work to strengthen the core. So, is it ok to deload without reaching a sticking point? My second question is because another coach from the gym, also a friend, offered me Oly lifting coaching for free, and I decided to take them, focusing only on the power versions. He told me it would be ok to train after my squats but before my other strength lifts and to change wednesdays back squat with front squats. What is your opinion on these matters? Do you recommend anything else?

Thanks for your time coach!

[Mark Rippetoe]

So here are my 2 questions, first, my form started breaking up in the squat so a friend coach told me to regress a bit on the intensity and work to strengthen the core. So, is it ok to deload without reaching a sticking point?

Ask your friend if he thinks that a man with a 500-pound deadlift has a stronger "core" than a man with a 200-pound deadlift, and if not, why. Then ask him about the process of going from a 200 to a 500 deadlift, and how a deload contributes to the process.

My second question is because another coach from the gym, also a friend, offered me Oly lifting coaching for free, and I decided to take them, focusing only on the power versions. He told me it would be ok to train after my squats but before my other strength lifts and to change wednesdays back squat with front squats. What is your opinion on these matters? Do you recommend anything else?

If you want to be an Olympic lifter, you have to front squat. Nobody else benefits from front squats.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Certainly if you are having form issues with the Squat, the worst thing you can do as a novice is introduce Front Squats. They'll teach you some movement patterns that are exactly the opposite of what we are trying to get you to learn with the LBBS. And for OL, the Front Squat trains the recovery from a squat clean. If you are just going to power clean / power snatch you don't really need to learn the front squat right now.

[Pluripotent]

Does anyone else think that doing oly lifts at 43 with a history of back pain and disc herniation is a bad idea? I would think that sticking to the program would be good for your back once you correct your form. However I'm not so optimistic about the oly lifts (especially with form issues). I'm also wondering what degree of herniation we're talking about here.

Especially in the case of back pain history, if your form breaks down, you missed the set. Time to reset and get that form perfect before increasing weight -- and not to introduce other lifts. And if you're having active back pain, then training with perfect form always is goal #1.

I guess I'd ask: what is the goal of training? If it's to get strong and avoid back issues? Then stick to the program. I'm not sure what you get from the oly lifts except increased risk of injury considering your history. But if the coaches think differently, then I'm willing to be wrong.

[Mark Rippetoe]

And can we please PLEASE PLEASE stop referring to the Olympic lifts as the "oly" lifts? This bit of CrossFittery is irritating as hell. Like calling the Starting Strength Seminar a "cert." If you can't be bothered to type the entire word "Olympic," just don't talk about them.

[Pluripotent]

And can we please PLEASE PLEASE stop referring to the Olympic lifts as the "oly" lifts? This bit of CrossFittery is irritating as hell. Like calling the Starting Strength Seminar a "cert." If you can't be bothered to type the entire word "Olympic," just don't talk about them.

Duly noted. I'm going to take the opportunity to throw the OP under the bus for that offence. I was taking my cue from his post. I should not be so impressionable. But I was still interested in whether olympic lifts are a good idea for this person and his history. Granted, my general understanding from reading the board is that he should probably just DTFP, regardless of his back history, but I would think his history gives him another reason to avoid them, unless you just want to compete in them, then I suppose that's different, but I doubt that's the case here.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, the OP is the offender here, but he's a new guy, and I'm just using this as an excuse to straighten this out. The most optional lifts are the power clean and power snatch, since you can get strong without them, and since power increases with strength whether its display is trained or not.

[AndrewLewis]

And can we please PLEASE PLEASE stop referring to the Olympic lifts as the "oly" lifts? This bit of CrossFittery is irritating as hell. Like calling the Starting Strength Seminar a "cert." If you can't be bothered to type the entire word "Olympic," just don't talk about them.

Are you ok with "the quick lifts"?

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I feel bad that I may have contributed to your irritability with my use of "OL." Please advise if this is acceptable.

[poser]

And can we please PLEASE PLEASE stop referring to the Olympic lifts as the "oly" lifts? This bit of CrossFittery is irritating as hell. Like calling the Starting Strength Seminar a "cert." If you can't be bothered to type the entire word "Olympic," just don't talk about them.

I’d merely like to point out that Andy Baker used the phrase “squat clean” in his post above [emoji851]