The book's title is BASIC Barbell Training, and this is not basic. It is a competitive technique that you'll have to learn either for yourself or from a coach.
Starting Strength Coach
Olympic Press
I just recently watched the Olympic Press series with Tommy Suggs on YouTube. First of all, that man is incredible. With Chase Lindley pressing so much with a style like this is there any plan to add more technique information about this to the book or doing some platform videos about it? I would be very interested in this content.
TMPHBITEU
The book's title is BASIC Barbell Training, and this is not basic. It is a competitive technique that you'll have to learn either for yourself or from a coach.
Starting Strength Coach
And by the way, no one ever taught Chase to press the way he presses. He was just flexible enough to do it when things got heavy. So much so, that we had to beat it out of him when he wasn't pressing nearly as much as he does now. Coincidentally, you know who else is very flexible? Carl Raghavan - a guy who break dances in the London Underground on the weekends (or at least he used to). Same with Brent J. Carter - another supple leopard dancer type. Maybe the key to an epic double-layback press is to start on a mobilidee program at the age of 7.
✓ Member
Brent's my coach and has been really instilling in me an appreciation for the layback, especially given my own flexible nature. I've admittedly had a sort of mental block when it comes to really *wanting* to commit to using it vs. a more-strict style press. For reference, my Press PR is 175, while my Press Lockout PR is 235.Originally Posted by Nick Delgadillo
Here are the comments following a workout that included Press Lockout 1RM:
And also keeping in mind, paraphrasing Rip: What do you think happens to your Strict Press as your Press (with layback) goes up? Anyway, I guess it's time for me to drop the conventional way of thinking about it like Chase seems to have.BC (in a tone of surprise/concern): Press lockouts were a little lighter than what you have done in the past.
CL: In regard to the Press lockouts, I'm observing that the ROM of shoulder flexion is pretty minimal, that the exercise concentrates more on an ab concentric contraction and not really addressing the "sticking point" of the press. Is this by design?
Full disclosure, I guess I feel like I want to do more strict-press-style volume-type of assistance work, or maybe do lockouts with minimal layback (which would take the weight down sure but would at least work a larger ROM).
I mean at the end of the day, I'll do what the coach finds suitable/optimal, but that's where my head is at I guess.
BC: That is fine regarding the press lockout. I think volume work at stricter methods is fine. But volume accumulated will be volume demonstrated. In other words if you do the majority of your work with a strict press when it gets heavy and things will get a little sloppy you will be unprepared for this new stress. For press lockouts the most important thing is handling the heavy loads. Note that we never just do one or the other. You are still getting some volume in with a more strict/ lighter loads. So for your press workouts when you are doing the amrap do as many as you can with less layback and as you need to do more layback simply do so.
The Press Lockouts sure are a trip though: getting feet in the right position to start, getting under the weight, fighting with all the anterior musculature, owning the shrug for a second, and then hanging from the bar after racking, waiting for my vision and head to come back. Does the carotid artery constrict differently in a press lockout than it does in a regular press? Does it have to do with taking in more air with my arms up and unloaded vs. the amount of air I take in at the bottom of a regular Press (arms down and loaded)? Is it the fact that I'm doing more weight and that's stressing the system harder? Probably both.
Starting Strength Coach
I've naturally done the layback since I am pretty flexible. The Olympic Press video w/ Tommy Suggs, as well as watching Chase press, really helped me with my timing. I'm guess just interested in the technique after watching some videos of the old school presses.
✓ Member
Sure, however, and please correct me if I'm mistaken, there're no competitive techniques that you would advocate in the same degree for the other lifts though, right? I.e., the squat, deadlift, and bench press techniques, as modeled here (as spelled out in the book), you wouldn't modify for competitive purposes, right? I'd think at best, a sumo pull might be advocated for competitive purposes only in a practice capacity (like Dr. Baraki's wife will practice it for competition). The Press with layback, on the other hand, it seems you're fine with using in a training capacity (past a certain level), more than just a practice-for-competition capacity.
You suggest it's something one would have to learn either himself or from a coach and, by extension, that it would not add any value to the printed version to include it. Fair. But if the above is true, and the Press with layback or double layback is valuable in training for driving the weight up (and even driving weight up for a different mode of the Press, e.g. the Strict Press) AND that the other lifts don't possess such an "advanced" technique ""modification"", then does it not deserve some discussion in the text, regardless of what the title of the book says about the target audience?
TMPHBITEU
I could be wrong, true.
✓ Member
If you don't commit 100% to the press before you explode the bar up you will miss. When you start pressing above 200 you pretty much start leaning back--even if you aren't a break-dancing yoga master. The bar just kinda pushes you down if you commit and let it push you down. As for me, I HAVE to let he bar push me down because I am not that flexible at all.
Yes. Once you learn to contract your abs at the exact time you will add 20 pounds to your press rather quickly.In regard to the Press lockouts...the exercise concentrates more on an ab concentric contraction and not really addressing the "sticking point" of the press. Is this by design?
This entirely defeats the purpose of the pin press.Full disclosure, I guess I feel like I want to do more strict-press-style volume-type of assistance work, or maybe do lockouts with minimal layback
Happens to all of us on a max press.The Press Lockouts sure are a trip though...hanging from the bar after racking, waiting for my vision and head to come back...Is it the fact that I'm doing more weight and that's stressing the system harder? Probably both.
The problem here is almost everyone has a very difficult time learning press 2.0. Even when they do, form slips very quickly without constant vigilance. When I first learned the double layback, even Matt Reynolds was a bit frustrated because he said, "I hate it that your form is better than mine." It's just a very technical lift. If you look at Matt's 300 press video, he just gorillas the damn bar straight up. As Tommy Suggs says, it's every bit as technical as a snatch.Sure, however, and please correct me if I'm mistaken...The Press with layback, on the other hand, it seems you're fine with using in a training capacity (past a certain level), more than just a practice-for-competition capacity. You suggest it's something one would have to learn either himself or from a coach and, by extension, that it would not add any value to the printed version to include it. Fair. But if the above is true, and the Press with layback or double layback is valuable in training for driving the weight up (and even driving weight up for a different mode of the Press, e.g. the Strict Press) AND that the other lifts don't possess such an "advanced" technique ""modification"", then does it not deserve some discussion in the text, regardless of what the title of the book says about the target audience?
✓ Member
I'm referring to commitment to the Press with layback in the philosophical sense, not an undedicated movement initiation once I've unracked.
Clarification: "more strict-press-style volume-type of assistance work" = not in the form of a pin press.This entirely defeats the purpose of the pin press.
Re: pin press with a more strict type form entirely defeating the purpose? Come now. At worst it just comes from a misunderstanding of the nature with which the partial lift commences. The values of the pin press still include the fact that it allows sticking points to be worked from a dead stop a la a rack pull, partial squat, or pin/board bench press. I understand what you mean, but let's be cerebral, if for nothing else than for the sake of someone learning something from this recorded text. Same team.
As you'll see in two sentences, no, it doesn't. I hope that it didn't come off like I was suggesting I was the only person to experience this. Regardless, my point was actually that I'm more prone to the phenomenon during a Press lockout vs. a Press and gave possible reasons why as to initiate discussion, one which you haven't contributed to with this seemingly dismissive bit.Happens to all of us on a max press.
Is your point here that because it is a difficult-to-learn, very technical lift, any attempt to model it or discuss its finer points in written word is fruitless?The problem here is almost everyone has a very difficult time learning press 2.0. Even when they do, form slips very quickly without constant vigilance. When I first learned the double layback, even Matt Reynolds was a bit frustrated because he said, "I hate it that your form is better than mine." It's just a very technical lift. If you look at Matt's 300 press video, he just gorillas the damn bar straight up. As Tommy Suggs says, it's every bit as technical as a snatch.
Starting Strength Coach
I think the technicality of the lift lends credence to the idea that more written and video content about this type of press would be a good thing.
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