adding "muscular weight" via "higher-volume workouts" (PPST 115)

[tompaynter]

PPST has always been a book of principles and examples. It has been my experience that putting 300 pounds on your squat makes your quads grow, so the best program for quad growth is the one that puts 300 pounds on your squat. If you want someone to write you a bodybuilding program, the best place to go is Home - Andy Baker. He can explain how to apply higher reps to your problem.

Understood, I'll check out Andy's stuff if and when I want to make a major program change in that direction.

In the meantime can I ask you a specific question about my own training related to this? I just tried a few weeks of alternating 3x5 on squats with a higher-rep, 3x8-10 day. It just seemed to make me more tired and did not seem to drive either strength or size gains (though it has only been a few weeks, maybe I gave up too fast or did not eat enough).

Now that I am reading PPST, I think I'm squarely in the advanced novice phase. I'm going to try alternating 1x5 with 2 backoff sets of 5, with a true light day of 3x5 at reduced weight. Deadlift 1x5 alternating with 3 sets of chins. Alternating Press and bench 3x3. As accessory work, a few sets of curls on non-chinup days. Now the question: what would you say to adding a few sets of leg extensions every other workout as further accessory work?

47 years old, 6'6", 260
squat 295 ~3x5
dead 405 1x5
bench ~260 3x3
press 160 ~3x5

History of patella dislocations that seem to have something to do with weak/undeveloped quads, or at least have left me with a psychological desire to bulk them up.

[AndrewLewis]

Baker is great. I highly recommend his services. He has some pretty damn good reviews on reddit as well for his Baker Barbell Club.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Now the question: what would you say to adding a few sets of leg extensions every other workout as further accessory work?

Fine with me. I guess everybody has to learn about this the hard way.

[Satch12879]

History of patella dislocations that seem to have something to do with weak/undeveloped quads, or at least have left me with a psychological desire to bulk them up.

And yet your deadlift is 405x5; is there no knee extension in the deadlift?

[Mark Rippetoe]

At a bodyweight of 260. Yet he is an Advanced Novice. I recommend 5 sets of Leg Extensions after 5 sets of 8-12 Front Squats at an RPE of 17.75 3 days/week. For the volume.

[tompaynter]

At a bodyweight of 260. Yet he is an Advanced Novice. I recommend 5 sets of Leg Extensions after 5 sets of 8-12 Front Squats at an RPE of 17.75 3 days/week. For the volume.

I consider myself an advanced novice because my ability to LP the squat on 3x5 across, after being at the program for quite awhile, has slowed despite several resets. Or let's put it this way: the advanced novice program sounds to me like a good way to keep my progress going, as I have been experiencing fatigue trying to do either 3x5 with increasing weights every workout, or 3x5 alternating with a higher-rep day. But I think I might be able to "sneak more weight onto the bar" by doing a heavy set and backoff sets, and a light day.

Perhaps under ideal conditions I could keep the basic LP going longer, but 1) I don't have regular coaching, and 2) I admittedly struggle with eating enough.

I'm not trying to puff myself up by calling myself an advanced novice. I'm reading PPST and the descriptions of the slowing of the LP that signals the need to switch to advanced novice programming sounded like me, that's all. Actually I could probably keep LP'ing the deadlift, it comes easier to me than squats. My press has also been stalled around 160, so I think a switch to 3's could benefit me.

Look, I've benefited a lot from the program. Deadlifting 405 may not be impressive to many here but it is pretty cool to me and I would not have gotten there without SS.

[Actually my nefarious plan is to get Rip to say, "Sure, fine, do some leg extensions if you want," take a screenshot, and then run to Reddit with my proof that Rip is a fraud and actually has his trainees doing bodybuilding workouts.]

[tompaynter]

And yet your deadlift is 405x5; is there no knee extension in the deadlift?

No, there is. And yet I do not have gnarly teardrop quads.

[m_sporkboy]

At a bodyweight of 260. Yet he is an Advanced Novice. I recommend 5 sets of Leg Extensions after 5 sets of 8-12 Front Squats at an RPE of 17.75 3 days/week. For the volume.

Woah, I would hardly think that going over 17.5 is called for! And you call yourself a coach. *sigh*

[Mark Rippetoe]

No, there is. And yet I do not have gnarly teardrop quads.

Do you not know that gnarly teardrop quads are genetic? Like diamond calves, razor abz, and deltoids like a bunch of bananas.

[Mark Le Comte]

History of patella dislocations that seem to have something to do with weak/undeveloped quads, or at least have left me with a psychological desire to bulk them up.

IMO, and I'm no expert here, strength (not size) is what will help to avoid dislocations. Strength will also help with size.

From my experience, training for size requires more food and more rest than training for strength (i.e. more tonnage lifted and greater physiological adaptation required). If you have trouble eating enough to make progress on 3x5, then adding a higher volume 5x10 or similar on alternating days with make you feel tired and beat up, and lead to lack of progress. My personal favourite, when I trained hard as an intermediate was a modified 4 day texas method rotating through 5x5, 1x5, 5x5, 3x8 over two weeks.

You might be able to make more novice gains if you eat more. If you can't (or won't) eat more then you may well be a situational intermediate (or advanced novice) and have to live with slower (or no) strength increases. The impact of which will also be slower size increases and slower risk reduction of dislocations.

Ultimately, its your choice.