The end of women's sports

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Is the general consensus in this thread that trans lifters should continue to lift in the gendered divisions they were biologically born into, and primarily because it is unfair to women born biologically as women to compete again women that were born as men? Should they compete in those classes for the rest of their lives? What do the participants in this thread think would be the most "fair" to all involved?

Yes and yes.

Here is even more absurdity. This kid is going girl to boy and WANTS to wrestle boys and the state won't let him/her. So she's allowed to take Testosterone and still compete to accommodate her.....condition? But none of the other kids can take it??? That doesn't seem right.

Transgender Texas wrestler wins second high school girls title

[Al Copersino]

Is the general consensus in this thread that trans lifters should continue to lift in the gendered divisions they were biologically born into, and primarily because it is unfair to women born biologically as women to compete again women that were born as men? Should they compete in those classes for the rest of their lives? What do the participants in this thread think would be the most "fair" to all involved?

Not to be flip - ok, to be a little flip - a male-to-female transgender weightlifter should compete in the male class so long as his chromosomes remain X and Y.

[Frankie]

The main silver lining to me of the ever-crazier and attempted leftward swing of culture is that as more people get left behind the ever-shifting line, they at least somewhat wake-up to what's actually going on. I was recently speaking with a very liberal (in the American political sense) female friend, who has competed in weightlifting and crossfit, about this very topic. I was pleasantly surprised to find we were in complete agreement on this issue. She was (rightly) upset that as a woman, she'd be at an impossible to overcome disadvantage against trans women who decided to compete against her and were allowed to do so. It's unfortunate that more people can't think systemically and unemotionally about these things, but humans being human and all that, if this is what it takes, so be it. There really aren't THAT many crazy people out there, at least compared to the non-crazies. But the crazies have figured out down to a science how to manipulate the good nature and good will of the non-crazies to make them think they're on the same side. As more and more non-crazies get shifted to the wrong side of the cultural line, there will be ever more pushback. This has already begun, and we have a long way to go. But it's not as one-sided as it was a few years ago.

Don't conflate this non-issue with left/right, left, liberals, etc. This is a black and white case of idiocy vs biology.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Except for the fact that the Right doesn't seem to be advocating for idiocy in this particular instance. But you're right, this is not particularly difficult material.

[Satch12879]

Except for the fact that the Right doesn't seem to be advocating for idiocy in this particular instance.

They don't need to advocate anything; all they need to do is not protest it and then eventually adopt it as part of their whole deal.

This is what the right, well, the establishment right, has done for years. As Michael Malice has noted, conservatism is progressivism driving the speed limit.

That being said, the one good thing we can look forward to is this thing eventually imploding. I think it was Jordan Peterson who observed that intersectionality was inherently irrational and unstable because the "intersections" kept getting smaller and more discrete. Eventually, any aggrieved individual will be so hyper sensitized to the various oppressed groups that they will find that they are in fact oppressing themselves. They will eat themselves in a hopefully delightful flash of normalcy.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Don't conflate this non-issue with left/right, left, liberals, etc. This is a black and white case of idiocy vs biology.

That would be conflating the world as it should be vs the way that it is. And it’s not a non-issue at all because this stuff is costing businesses time and money trying to figure out how to navigate through this stuff without getting sued by some activist group or another or getting tarnished by the media the left for bigotry/transphobia etc for not supporting this stuff 100%. Talk to people in HR at a large company and see if this is a non issue. They have no choice but to participate in this act unless they wanna be tied up in court settling lawsuits.

[Michael Wolf]

Don't conflate this non-issue with left/right, left, liberals, etc. This is a black and white case of idiocy vs biology.

You're sort of right, maybe inadvertently, as it's a division within the left itself. No one from the right is advocating this or thinks it's sane, as far as I know. If there are such people, they're a statistically insignificant minority, whereas it's a large part of the current left's agenda. This is so easily discoverable via the google machine that I'll leave that up to you, but everyone who follows the culture wars closely knows it already.

I am also aware that left/right is a very poor descriptive tool for this and most other issues, but we have to be able to have a conversation where words have referential meanings that everyone can at least broadly understand, even if they break down when exposed to a microscopic dissection. That's fine. For our purposes here, the terms work OK.

[MitchellCole]

The main silver lining to me of the ever-crazier and attempted leftward swing of culture is that as more people get left behind the ever-shifting line, they at least somewhat wake-up to what's actually going on. I was recently speaking with a very liberal (in the American political sense) female friend, who has competed in weightlifting and crossfit, about this very topic. I was pleasantly surprised to find we were in complete agreement on this issue. She was (rightly) upset that as a woman, she'd be at an impossible to overcome disadvantage against trans women who decided to compete against her and were allowed to do so. It's unfortunate that more people can't think systemically and unemotionally about these things, but humans being human and all that, if this is what it takes, so be it. There really aren't THAT many crazy people out there, at least compared to the non-crazies. But the crazies have figured out down to a science how to manipulate the good nature and good will of the non-crazies to make them think they're on the same side. As more and more non-crazies get shifted to the wrong side of the cultural line, there will be ever more pushback. This has already begun, and we have a long way to go. But it's not as one-sided as it was a few years ago.

It's almost like people are more alike than not, in general. The crazies on the Right and Left get the headlines, but in day-to-day life most people are centrists. I lean left, but I'm completely indifferent on irrelevant issues like the wall and gun control b/c they don't matter. The wall is not going to stop illegal immigration to any measurable amount, and crazies will still get guns and shoot people. There are far more important matters like obesity and drunk driving to name two, but nobody on either side wants to give up their big macs and booze.

Also, social media ruined the world. We are WAY more divided than before twitter and facebook.

[凤凰来仪]

That really depends on what your definition of "centrist" is. Centrists can be exceedingly irrational. Have you ever been to Portland or Seattle?


There, it is considered "centrist" to hear a parent chastising their 5 year old child for assuming the gender identity of an inanimate stuffed animal (they used the wrong pronoun). Seriously, I have overheard this 15 minute lecture more than once.

[gisborne]

I’m pretty liberal but trans women competing in the women’s division in any sport is ridiculous. Society seems to have adopted the attitude that every special snowflake deserves a chance to win, even at the expense of everyone else.