Art or Science? Art or Science? - Page 2

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  1. #11
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    • phoenix arizona seminar date
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    A half century or so ago, I recall getting the "standard" advice about deadlifts and squats... I thought, people seem to survive it at some level of load, so why not increase it slowly and as you adapt... you would not injure yourself if you didn't over do it.
    Then I thought (ominous music),
    well if it is that obvious... someone else would have thought of it by now.

    Then I recall looking long and hard at Bill Starr's book. I wanted it, but HOW COULD A BOOK BE WORTH THAT MUCH MONEY????

    I have always been regarded independent and stubborn as hell. I whiffed on both close calls.

    Rip's notion about avoiding hard work has that terrible ring of truth.

  2. #12
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    Bill's book did not use our training program.

  3. #13
    Brodie Butland is offline Starting Strength Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by VNV View Post
    Reminds me of a lecture Richard Hamming (he of the Hamming code, window, etc) gave at my alma mater where he said that there are *still* things to be discovered. This, to science and engineering students overwhelmed with all of the modern advancements in their fields of study.

    It was an inspiring observation.
    I read Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure if Scientific Revolutions back in college and asked a particle physics professor I had what his thoughts were on the general thesis that science is not so much a gradual learning of things, but paradigm shifts (Kuhn coined the term) that completely upend the previous order. (Kuhn himself was a nuclear physicist, so he understood the science about as well as anyone at the time. Unfortunately he wrote like a physicist so it got tedious at times.)

    The professor said, “I actually like that because it would be a very boring existence if we had nothing new to discover.” This was the same guy who was part of the research team that verified the existence of one of the quarks (can’t remember which one). Can’t say I disagree...discovery and learning to the human mind is what physical activity is to the body. It would indeed be a boring existence if we discovered everything there was to know. Not to mention that scientists have been saying for the last 300 years that we are 50 years away from knowing everything.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    Those Greeks knew a thing or two about training for strength. They also produced beautiful art in the form of sculptures representing the ideal man. Strength, beauty, pride and intellect were clearly part of their culture thousands of years ago. I bet they were utilising progressive overload before Rip brought it to our attention.
    I'm not sure this ties back to the Greeks but isn't there a story about someone who squatted livestock as it grew from calf to full grown? Seems like an application of progressive overload even if they didn't realize it.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodie Butland View Post
    ...discovery and learning to the human mind is what physical activity is to the body. It would indeed be a boring existence if we discovered everything there was to know.
    Excellent.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrie View Post
    I'm not sure this ties back to the Greeks but isn't there a story about someone who squatted livestock as it grew from calf to full grown? Seems like an application of progressive overload even if they didn't realize it.
    You're thinking of Milo of Croton.

    Also reminds me of my favorite childhood book, 'Holes' where Stanley Yelnats carries a baby pig up the mountain every day.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodie Butland View Post
    I read Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure if Scientific Revolutions
    One of several excellent books on creativity and innovation I read during the 80's. Drucker's book Innovation and Entrepreneurship being another such. But then, most of Drucker's works were of the highest caliber.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaimi Kuenzli View Post
    You're thinking of Milo of Croton.

    Also reminds me of my favorite childhood book, 'Holes' where Stanley Yelnats carries a baby pig up the mountain every day.
    Elya Yelnats was the one who got the piglet from Madame Zeroni, not Stanley.

  9. #19
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    I've been buying and/or reading books and articles about lifting since The Keys to Progress were published in Hoffman's periodical. Although I haven't seen all of them since the mid-60's, I've seen a LOT of the written word on the subject of lifting. I have only seen one book that discussed lifting form in any intelligent detail, and it comes in at least a lap behind any edition of the SS blue book. McRobert's book Insider's Tell All on Weight Training Technique has just a bit over 200 pages and covers a bunch of other lifts with free weights and other strength training equipment. Although it does devote the most attention to squats and deadlifts, it pales in comparison to the detail, let alone the underlying analysis, of SS.

    In short, others have tried to do this and have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.

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