Getting that last rep

[Will Morris]

I've been training for a long time. I've been training hard for a long time. I am probably more willing to grind on a heavy rep more so than the normal person. I haven't the foggiest idea what my RPE is on a given set until I get to RPE = 10. I know full and well when I could not possibly complete another rep, or when it would be irresponsible to attempt another. There aren't a lot of things I am good at in this world, but I do know how to work hard. I know how to work really hard....but, given the opportunity to bail on my programmed sets/reps/intensity by my subjective assessment of my warm-ups would be very tempting to the biological human in me. I am reflective enough to know that this idea would be devastating to my training. There are people out there who will (likely rightfully) make the argument that this means I am not intelligent enough to understand the intricacies of RPE based training. Perhaps that it is really just my intelligence that is the limiting factor to me using this method of training.

In many years of training, the most powerful motivator for me is seeing the programmed weight and not allowing myself the option to quit. I certainly fail, but I'd certainly rather fail than quit. I miss reps here and there. Sometimes I stop a set a rep or two short because there is nothing left and I realize I failed to meet the expectation for that set, but I will try and finish up the rest with cluster reps. Sometimes, I will drop a set off the end because I realize I am starting to drift into dangerous territory. When this happens, I realize I need to relook my recovery between the last workout and the current one.

I think more than half of my PRs have been set on days where I figured I would bomb out during my warm-ups. I do, however, willingly admit that my psychology probably plays a bigger role in my training than the normal person.

[Yngvi]

This is baseless bullshit.

Oh wait... you're missing reps sometimes because you went up in weight despite feeling like shit on a given day and then do a reset? That's basically auto-regulation right there... only that it's reactive instead of proactive and has it's own cons in that it will affect the next workouts as well. Because what if it really was just a bad day with bad sleep, too little food, too much stress, etc.? You've done a reset that affects the next workouts or even weeks of training even though your next training might have allowed for a new PR.

I have been on intermediate programming for about a year now. Just two weeks ago doing my OHP warmups, everything felt like shit. I had 4 hours of sleep the night before, hadn't eaten enough for a couple of days and had been overreaching a little with my training. I knew it was going to be a bad day, so I decided to take 10% off the bar... then I swore at myself and put my prescribed weight on the bar.

Result: I did a +5lb PR for 5 reps X 3 sets easily (180lbs). Felt like I could have gotten another couple of reps or 2 more sets.

The moral of the story is to do what the programming says. RPE is unnecessarily complicated for nearly everyone. If you notice every day is a grind or the last rep barely goes up at an extremely slow pace, you adjust the programming for your next weekly or biweekly cycle. If you notice it happen several times, then you need to adjust programming further and maybe consider adjusting volume. The intensity tends to work itself out to the correct level if you follow the programming as written in the book.

If you don't care about the speed of your progress, why not jump straight to advanced programming? It will work. We know advanced programming works. You should always complete all of your reps like Ed Coan. You can even add additional volume if you want. But, the cycle time will be 2X - 12X longer and you will put weight on the bar more slowly. Following advanced linear programming is less complicated and more difficult to screw up than intermediate RPE programming.

[MAD9692]

If you genuinely feel like shit (and it's not just because you fucked up your technique or whatever) then you don't go up in weight and maybe even decrease.

I have had experiences where my warm-ups felt horrible and still I completed my work sets.
I have also had the opposite experience in which my warm-ups felt incredibly fast and explosive and I have missed my working sets.
Based on these experiences it just make sense to ignore my feelings and just add a few pounds when I'm supposed to and get it done.
Feelings lie.

This RPE program may be good for advanced lifters that are already squatting ridiculous numbers.
The people selling this RPE BS know it.
The only reason it even permeates these boards is because some snake oil salesman stood on a giants shoulders so they can make some money.
No one would know they or this RPE shit existed if they didn't.

Can you let us know how much your numbers increased since you started RPE?

[Erik Y]

If you want data, go read people’s training logs. It’s revealing. These days, everybody keeps logs, posts on Instagram, etc., so this is easy to do. Some even get published.

[Nockian]

warm-ups felt horrible.
it just make sense to ignore my feelings
Feelings lie.

^^^^^ exactly.

Emotions aren't reliable tools of cognition. Feelings are emotions. Logic is the art of non contradictory identification. We ask "is it true" ? Then we test by direct observation of reality. Reality never lies, how we 'feel' about reality is prone to logical error. We have an easy way to know this because the rules of logic tell us that an appeal to emotion is a fallacy.

Therefore: RPE relies on an appeal to emotion argument. It's a bad argument. It is contradictory and it fails to identify reality.

[deeprooted]

Yes guys, that's why I said unless e.g. your technique was crap during the warmup. I know full well that you can sometimes come to the gym well rested and fully motivated and then have a terrible training session. Other times you might come to the gym with little sleep and everything being shit that day and you suddenly PR. These things will still happen despite the usage of RPE and having to judge your warmup sets. You do have to make some adjustments in your warmup sets/reps/intensities though of course so that it's more precise to judge.

Regarding my numbers and previous training... to summarize I've been doing SS, TM, 531, TM 4 day split, HLM and back to TM 4 day split with rotating rep ranges, doing Dynamic Effort stuff etc. over a time span of I think around 6 years or so. I started at a bw of 60-61kg (which up to that point has still been my highest bw until I started lifting in my 20s) at 1.81m and barely benching around 30kg. Considering this, my numbers will be a joke to many around here but it's about the progress not the absolute numbers. And yeah I was a prime candidate for GOMAD, which I've done and which helped me reach around 92kg of bw, though with significant fat gain too tbh. Since then my bw has stayed in the ballpark of 83-88kg - still light for my height but I should mention again that I have a very slim build (shoulders, hips, wrists, ankles, etc.) so I won't be able to pack on much more weight as my arms already stand off to the sides, touching my lats and my thighs rub terribly (I don't even want to know how I look walking around). I also get sleep apnea over around 87-88kg.

My highest numbers around 2 years ago (where I pretty much plateaued around for about 2 years as well I should mention) and a bw of around 87kg before I started getting some SI issues and couldn't go that heavy anymore:
SQ: 175kg with a significant grind
BP: 125kg
DL: 190kg (short arms, if you're wondering why the small SQ/DL ratio)
P: 90kg

About 1 year ago my SI issues started dissipating and I could start going heavier again where I reached those numbers with TM:
SQ: 150kg 3RM
BP: 110kg 3RM
DL: 162.5kg 3RM

Then I went on a 12 week program incorporating RPE and reached those numbers at 87kg:
SQ: targeted 170kg but they were so easy that I did 175kg afterwards easily as well
BP: 125kg with ease
DL: 185kg with ease

I repeated the program and lost a bit of weight during the last few weeks and had 85kg towards the end:
SQ: 180kg with ease
BP: went for and missed 130kg (but did 125kg submax in training the weeks before... I think that was most affected by the weight loss)
DL: targeted 195kg which went up with ease so decided to go after my "life time goal" of 200kg which also wasn't much of a grind surprisingly... I remember the 190kg 2 years ago being much more of a struggle

So why am I convinced that it works? My training has been way less fatiguing, I lost a bit of weight but I think that I still put on a bit more muscle mass than I did over the previous years as intermediate trainee. I matched my previous numbers with ease during the first round which I've been struggling with for years and where I had some pain now and then and finally improved on them during the second round, setting new PRs for the first time in about 2 years or more. And here's the fun part... doing RPE8 singles regularly combined with non-grindy volume work was way more enjoyable as well as effective than not doing the submax singles but doing heavy ass volume work that lets you sit on the bench for 10-12 minutes all fucked up.

[deeprooted]

You sound awfully positive here, but do you actually train??? Here on the Flat Earth??? Have you never had the experience of having your last warmup "feel like shit" and then having all the work sets go for all the reps, even though they "felt like shit"? I assure you that everyone else reading this has experienced this situation, and that I have been training for 42 years and had this experience last week. If you decide what you want to do for work sets based on your warmups instead of your programmed assignment, you are giving yourself permission to not try, and therefore you are not training. Not training is certainly popular, and Gold's Gym is full of happy people who do not train. Your approach is certainly more complicated, and may therefore be perceived as more valuable. Go ahead and sell it to credulous kids. Easier that training, easier to sell.

Yes I know this situation and I responded to that specifically in the other post. But let me also present another option when doing volume work and finding that you misjudged the weight on the bar during the first set:

- If the first set was too light, you simply put on more weight on the bar for the next sets. Nobody is gonna shoot you when doing sets across and the first set was a little lighter.
- If the first set was too heavy, you simply take off some weight for the next sets. It's not shameful and you don't have to necessarily prolong the rest between sets just to be able to grind out the following sets. It's volume work, nobody cares if you do your 5x5 with 5lb more or less on a given day.

[Satch12879]

The first law of economics is that man acts. A corollary to this is that man will act in order to maximize his leisure and minimize his labor. If you give a man an out, chances are he'll take it. Granted, there are conscientious people; however, in engineering we don't design for best case scenarios. The goal is to eliminate or minimize any independent variables.

[Mark Rippetoe]

- If the first set was too light, you simply put on more weight on the bar for the next sets. Nobody is gonna shoot you when doing sets across and the first set was a little lighter.
- If the first set was too heavy, you simply take off some weight for the next sets. It's not shameful and you don't have to necessarily prolong the rest between sets just to be able to grind out the following sets. It's volume work, nobody cares if you do your 5x5 with 5lb more or less on a given day.

Right.

[MAD9692]

- If the first set was too light, you simply put on more weight on the bar for the next sets. Nobody is gonna shoot you when doing sets across and the first set was a little lighter.
- If the first set was too heavy, you simply take off some weight for the next sets. It's not shameful and you don't have to necessarily prolong the rest between sets just to be able to grind out the following sets. It's volume work, nobody cares if you do your 5x5 with 5lb more or less on a given day.

Feelings.