Yeah, ever since I heard about RPE I've never understood how it's supposed to be reliable.
TMPHBITEU
There are several problems with it.Originally Posted by Jdcuth
Member
Yeah, ever since I heard about RPE I've never understood how it's supposed to be reliable.
Starting Strength Coach
I guess the expectation would be that the trainee has a finely tuned calibration for exertion. Most of my best lifts of all time have occurred on days when I felt like crap and everything felt exceptionally heavy.
Member
What no one has mentioned yet is that an RPE rating can very obviously be affected by state of mind. Lifting is perhaps as much mental as it is physical. We've all heard stories about how coaches tell their lifters they're lifting a lower weight than they actually are and then the lifters end up setting a PR with ease. The feeling of dread at having to lift a heavier weight naturally sets in, whether your max is 140kg or 280kg. So where RPE fails even more is that it deceives you into properly assessing your mental state by simply not accounting for it. Worse still, RPE judgements on the spot actively facilitate an improper assessment because you're constantly worrying about making a judgement call on weight in the moment, thus urging you to lower the training volume.
While I and everyone else can attest to the above and say we've lifted on days we didn't want to and PRed, I find that to be the rare exception. The inverse of feeling great and then PRing is just as exceptional or even more so. What usually happens however is you don't feel like anything on your warmups and then proceed to either have a great workout, by just getting all the reps with good to decent form, or even PR. That's the majority of cases that RPE doesn't account for, since you're constantly readjusting on that programme almost by definition. Cos if you're just doing the workout as planned without adjusting training volume, are you even using RPE? Or are you just training like most people that train for strength while also being mindful of how fast the weight is moving, aka like everyone else.
My two cents: the reason I haven't jumped ship is because training methods like SS and HLM and TM not only account for these training sessions where you don't feel either great or terrible, they actively plan for them. Since this kind of workout is the majority in all cases, it pays to use the methods that capitalise on them. Because, while everyone's training will feature this type of workout most of all, not every method maximises the number of workouts where things just go as planned. The success rate of these methods should speak volumes to their design and applicability, at the expense of sometimes bombing out cos you feel like shit and it turnt out to be a truthworthy feeling.
That's where RPE comes from for many anyway: the mortifying fear in trying to avoid bombing out once in a while. But that's as inevitable as stubbing your little toe, dropping something, or missing a bus. But sometimes that's just how it goes. Cos not everyone is gonna be Bill Kazmaier. And even he failed lifts from time to time. People tend to forget.
Member
Therein lies the problem. Feelings aren't tools of cognition. We can't decide on what to eat, what to do, or what exercise to take based on our feelings- we are required to think, to reason, to use logic to assess reality and our place in it. Sometimes I'm so tired that it's RPE 10 just to get up off the couch, but I can't just stay on the couch if I want to survive, even if it might be nice.
✓ Member
I just watched one of Rip's Q&As where he talks about RPE being useful for an advanced lifter. I think he said someone who's been training for several years. That makes sense. Personally I've had plenty of times where my last warmup set felt HEAVY. And guess what, my worksets felt worse but they still happened. If I had tried to use RPE I'd probably have never squatted over 300.
On the other side of the coin, I've had bench presses that felt easy and then ended up missing the last rep.
I think the takeaway is that novice and intermediate lifters simply lack the frame of reference to use RPE in any useful way.
TMPHBITEU
All lifters lack that, Matt. Doesn't matter how advanced you are, your Perceptions of your Exertion are subject to inaccuracy due to the nature of human perception, as Nockian observes. I have set PRs while badly hung over, and even recently I benched 285 after telling Stef to watch me close because the last warmup felt like 285 would never go. The bottom line is that perceptions are not data. And the use of numbers for perceptions does not make it data, for any level of training advancement.
Member
This is simple really, I read a book about it.
Exercise is physical activity performed for the effect it produces today - right now. Each workout is performed for the purpose of producing a stress that satisfies the immediate need of the exerciser, basically just punching the clock.
Training is the physical activity performed for purposes of satisfying a long term performance goal, and is therefore about the process instead of the constituent workouts of the process.
RPE = Exercise
Training= Long Term improvement
See, its simple.
Just because you are exercising and not training it doesn't mean you cant make SOME progress but obviously Training results in better long term progress.
I don't train in the summer because I'm to busy having fun with the kids. There's no way I can follow a detailed workout/eating schedule to produce a long term improvement. I do however exercise with barbells almost daily and the weights I choose are entirely based on how I feel.
When I train I improve.
When I exercise (RPE) I maintain to an extent the improvements I made when I trained previously.
Simple.
Member
MAD what are your PR's?
Member
1. Depending on the exercise, I need about five minutes between sets of five to lift 90% of my 5 RM. On a light or heavy day, I would adjust the amount of rest accordingly. If I need more time between sets to make the reps, I take it.
2. Absolute max 5 lbs per week and more commonly < 5lbs per month.
3. Enough to gain about 5 lbs in 5 months, which I need to lose in the 6th month in order to stay in the same weight class
Since increasing or decreasing the rest interval will have a significant effect on the ability to complete a planned workout, is it common for lifters to track rest intervals as they do weight, sets and reps?
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