Starting Strength Radio: Abeel Mangi MD: Cardiac Rehab and Strength Training Starting Strength Radio: Abeel Mangi MD: Cardiac Rehab and Strength Training - Page 3

starting strength gym
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Starting Strength Radio: Abeel Mangi MD: Cardiac Rehab and Strength Training

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    39,684

    Default

    • phoenix arizona seminar date
    • texas seminar date
    Quote Originally Posted by Hekktor View Post
    I have no background as a health expert. I have just been reading a lot of non-academic literature on the subject so allow me to test how well I understand the answer.

    The simplest of carbs is glucose and fructose, which combine to make sucrose. Indigested sucrose quickly separates into its component parts.

    Glucose triggers an insulin response signally “make fat of unburnt glucose. I include ready stores of glucose in the brain and muscles as burnt. Fructose creates no insulin response and cannot be used in muscles or brain (I will skip repeating “brain” from here on due to the main focus of this website.) Fructose has to be processed with alcohol in the liver before the body can use fructose byproducts. The liver creates triglycerides of those byproducts that it spews into the blood stream. Those triglycerides are easily made into fat tissue. Glucose triggered insulin acts as an accelerant to building fatty tissue.

    Without the presence of fiber, protein, or fat to slow the decomposition of sucrose, these fatty depositing processes go into high gear. Complex carbs then keep adding fuel to the fatty depositing process when the fructose byproducts are nearly spent, making it last even longer.

    In the absence of sucrose, complex carbs must be more slowly decomposed by the body. The glucose does not set off nearly the insulin surge. The fructose has more time to move from triglycerides to conversion to glucose in the muscles as a workout or protein build occurs.

    Without the insulin screaming for fat deposits to be built out of fructose byproducts, the body has more chance to “make good choices,” to quote the neighbors’ 4-year old, about how to use the nutrient components in the blood stream.

    In other words introduction of sucrose makes insulin run around like Chicken Little screaming the sky is falling or the end is nigh and that you should stock your bomb shelters now.

    Complex carbs without Chicken Little are like a fine meal overlooking the countryside with no worry in the world. The body has time to reflect and leisurely build the best body it can.

    That’s all I got. How did I do?
    You made a couple of mistakes.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You made a couple of mistakes.
    Fair enough. Good to know. I guess back to the books to study more. Any places to focus my attention?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    La Jolla California
    Posts
    1,913

    Default

    Thanks for the discussion. I suppose I should clarify my particular circumstances: if one is living on a very low carbohydrate diet generally (either the pursuit of a keto diet or just a very low carbohydrate diet) AND seeks to control bodyfat through close monitoring of daily caloric intake AND frequently depletes his muscle glycogen stores via hard, regular, consistent, barbell training, AND knows this by seeing a steady drop in scale weight, which scale weight readily comes back when carbohydrates (and water) refill muscle glycogen stores, THEN wouldn't simpler carbs - always excluding artificial sources of fructose - like rice, white bread, waxy maize, glucose powder added to whey shakes be a superior choice? Theres no point in slowing down the process, is there?

    I ask becasue I am - self diagnosed - not very insulin sensitive and complex carbohydrates and the resultant elevated levels of insulin over a longer period of time seem to trigger bingeing behavior, possibly thru the effects of insulin on my ghrelin and lepin. I do NOT experince these bingeing problems with smaller amounts of the faster acting carbs. And yes, I know white rice and white bread are considered complex carbs, but...are they really? Theyre pretty fucking processed.

    Thanks

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    And yes, I know white rice and white bread are considered complex carbs, but...are they really? Theyre pretty fucking processed.
    Long grain rice
    Ingredients:
    100% long grain rice.

    That does not compute.


    Bread is 6 basic ingredients: flour, water, yeast, sugar, salt, fat. Nowadays, making your own bread is child's play. Don't buy bread in plastic wrapping, go to a bakery or buy a bread machine.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    La Jolla California
    Posts
    1,913

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaldrew View Post
    Long grain rice
    Ingredients:
    100% long grain rice.

    That does not compute.


    Bread is 6 basic ingredients: flour, water, yeast, sugar, salt, fat. Nowadays, making your own bread is child's play. Don't buy bread in plastic wrapping, go to a bakery or buy a bread machine.
    The simplicity of ingredients in white rice in no way reflects the amount of processing its been through: from wikipedia: "White rice is milled rice that has had its husk, bran, and germ removed. This alters the flavor, texture and appearance of the rice and helps prevent spoilage and extend its storage life. After milling, the rice is polished, resulting in a seed with a bright, white, shiny appearance...The milling and polishing processes both remove nutrients...White rice is often enriched with some of the nutrients stripped from it during its processing."

    This processing makes it very, very easily and quickly digested. White bread, regardless of where its made, is similarly aggressively proicessed, which makes it quickly and readily digested.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaldrew View Post
    Long grain rice
    Bread is 6 basic ingredients: flour, water, yeast, sugar, salt, fat. Nowadays, making your own bread is child's play. Don't buy bread in plastic wrapping, go to a bakery or buy a bread machine.
    Four basic ingredients--flour, water, yeast, and salt--and even the salt is optional if you're from Tuscany (though saltless bread tastes pretty flat, to be honest). I like a pan dulce as much as the next person, but the fat and sugar are 100% optional for making basic yet delicious bread.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    2,444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hekktor View Post
    I have no background as a health expert. I have just been reading a lot of non-academic literature on the subject so allow me to test how well I understand the answer.

    The simplest of carbs is glucose and fructose, which combine to make sucrose. Indigested sucrose quickly separates into its component parts.

    Glucose triggers an insulin response signally “make fat of unburnt glucose. I include ready stores of glucose in the brain and muscles as burnt. Fructose creates no insulin response and cannot be used in muscles or brain (I will skip repeating “brain” from here on due to the main focus of this website.) Fructose has to be processed with alcohol in the liver before the body can use fructose byproducts. The liver creates triglycerides of those byproducts that it spews into the blood stream. Those triglycerides are easily made into fat tissue. Glucose triggered insulin acts as an accelerant to building fatty tissue.

    Without the presence of fiber, protein, or fat to slow the decomposition of sucrose, these fatty depositing processes go into high gear. Complex carbs then keep adding fuel to the fatty depositing process when the fructose byproducts are nearly spent, making it last even longer.

    In the absence of sucrose, complex carbs must be more slowly decomposed by the body. The glucose does not set off nearly the insulin surge. The fructose has more time to move from triglycerides to conversion to glucose in the muscles as a workout or protein build occurs.

    Without the insulin screaming for fat deposits to be built out of fructose byproducts, the body has more chance to “make good choices,” to quote the neighbors’ 4-year old, about how to use the nutrient components in the blood stream.

    In other words introduction of sucrose makes insulin run around like Chicken Little screaming the sky is falling or the end is nigh and that you should stock your bomb shelters now.

    Complex carbs without Chicken Little are like a fine meal overlooking the countryside with no worry in the world. The body has time to reflect and leisurely build the best body it can.

    That’s all I got. How did I do?
    You are referring to denovo lipogenesis are ignoring the fact that this is not metabolically efficient. It requires extreme overfeeding of carbohydrate and/or fructose for this to happen (>100% of Total Daily Energy Expenditure exclusively from carbohydrate) and even then it has been reported that fractions of a lb were gained under those conditions. This is because carbohydrates also stimulate their own oxidation and blunt dietary fat oxidation. As you eat more carbohydrates you burn more carbohydrates and burn less dietary fat. In energy surplus conditions, you'd burn off the extra carbohydrates and store the dietary fat as body fat.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    La Jolla California
    Posts
    1,913

    Default

    starting strength nutrition camp
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    1) Complex Carbohydrates typically contain fiber
    2) Glycemic response is greater when carbohydrates are consumed alone
    3) Glycemic response is blunted when carbohydrates are mixed with protein, fiber, and fat
    4) Simple carbohydrates are useful around workout times when need is higher

    Also "hours and hours" of hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia is unlikely a healthy individual.
    Mr. Santana: Thanks for your learned contribution. I guess Im wondering if the slower digesting complex carbs, precisely because they are slower digesting, result in a longer more protracted insulin response. For example, if 200 calories of waxy maize or a similar fast acting carb is dissolved, acted upon by insulin and stored in (lets just say) 60 minutes, which then allows insulin levels to return to baseline, wouldnt 200 calories of slow digesting carbohydrates (ltes say something really complex, like 100 calories of black beans spread onto 100 calories of whole wheat bread) take a lot longer to breakdown, be digested acted upon by ilin and sotered? lets say the black bean sanich takes 180 minutes - wouldn't that cause a longer time of elevated insulin before insulin returns to baseline?

    In other words, If x units of insulin get pumped out to dispose of 200g of carbs - regardless of whether they are complex or simple - wouldnt it be better from an endocrineological persepctive to just pump out x units get it over and done with in a short burst of time? As opposed to slowly releasing X units over many more hours as the complex fibers, fats etc. get broken down slowly and released into the blood. Its my understanding that even slightly elvated levels of insulin cause downstream signaling to other hormones (namely ghrelin and leptin, but probably others) that can make things difficult for former fat boys who are always struggling with excess adiposity, such as myself.

    Thanks again.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •