Starting Strength Radio: Robert Santana RD SSC

[Tim K]

He's actually not a pig farmer, my child. He's an agricultural scientist working for international agribusiness in Asia, whose job is to make animals grow muscle mass, i.e. pork. His living depends on the success of his feeding programs, and his data set is several tens of millions of animals.

Science.

How many humans are in his data set?

[Polishdude20]

I agree with what Rip and Robert are saying.

On another note, these podcasts are great and bringing in other experts from these forums into the podcast helps people like me who have been fans of SS for a while now. Now I mean this with the utmost respect but a long time follower of this community may enjoy these podcasts more and gain more from them if the interviewee would be free to speak for longer periods of time without being interrupted. I know you have to deal with silly bullshit and the bottom of the barrel people on the internet but if you're narrow casting, addressing these bottom of the barrel people every minute seems to me like a waste of time when the podcast could have saved 20 minutes and had more content from Robert.

[stef]

Why have Santana as a guest (who you talk over the entire time)

It is apparent that some of you guys don't engage in actual, real life conversations where the parties dynamically interact in a natural way. Get out more. And don't bring along a talking stick, FFS.

[JDemboski]

Al Gore’s science also said California would be underwater by now.

[Mark Rippetoe]

On another note, these podcasts are great and bringing in other experts from these forums into the podcast helps people like me who have been fans of SS for a while now. Now I mean this with the utmost respect but a long time follower of this community may enjoy these podcasts more and gain more from them if the interviewee would be free to speak for longer periods of time without being interrupted. I know you have to deal with silly bullshit and the bottom of the barrel people on the internet but if you're narrow casting, addressing these bottom of the barrel people every minute seems to me like a waste of time when the podcast could have saved 20 minutes and had more content from Robert.

I'll ask Robert to comment on this.

How many humans are in his data set?

HIS data set includes no humans at all. Again, he is an agricultural scientist, not a nutrition scientist. Is this supposed to be a refutation to an argument he has not made?

[David Sanders]

He's actually not a pig farmer, my child. He's an agricultural scientist working for international agribusiness in Asia, whose job is to make animals grow muscle mass, i.e. pork. His living depends on the success of his feeding programs, and his data set is several tens of millions of animals.

Science.

Rip, I thought this was understood without you having to go into the weeds. In the words of Mark Twain: "Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[Fulcrum]

Because....science....
3)
There is novel evidence that suggests higher protein intakes (>3.0 g/kg/d) may have positive effects on body composition in resistance-trained individuals (i.e., promote loss of fat mass).

Didn’t read the paper. Briefly skimmed the abstract. Not sure if the data supports this, but, if it does, seems like maybe the pig farmer knows more than most.

I don't think the pigs are worried about their body fat percentage, or their waist circumference, or any sports performance advantages associated with lower body fat percentages. Unless.....are these aesthetic athelete pigs?

What level of training advancement are the pigs to need all this protien? Are the pigs even DTP?

[Mark Rippetoe]

You don't know anything about hogs, do you Fulcrum? Or much of anything else except uninformed argument, it seems. You must be a City Boy. Show hogs are lean. Lean meat is what is paid for when you buy pork. The industry is not interested in raising fat hogs, because there is no market for hog fat. Just like humans, LBM increases are accompanied by fat increases, but the idea is to skew towards LBM with the feeding program. These guys know some things, and your precious cuteness keeps you from learning.

[David Kirkham]

I am the friend of the "pig farmer" Rip is talking about with Santana.

Get at least 300 grams of protein a day because a pig farmer said so. Brilliant.

My "pig farmer" friend (for the past 25 years) has a PhD in nutrition and is the Vice Chairman of the largest food producing company in the world. He lectures all across the world as an expert in food production, biosecurity, transmission of infectious diseases, and genetic selection--all with the goal of putting meat (not fat) on animals. He deals with billions and billions of chickens, turkeys, pigs, cows, sheep, fish etc. per year. His research centers are larger than most countries largest production facilities. Please note his data sets are in the tens of billions of subjects with ongoing research budgets in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

International Society of Sports Nutrition Position Stand: protein and exercise | Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Full Text

Because the preponderance of evidence says otherwise.

Rip and Santana already discussed the almost complete lack of credibility in these types of papers. Who is controlling the type and quantity of the food intake of the subjects? Is it self reported? Who is controlling the environment? Is it self reported? Who is controlling the exercise expenditures??? The list of variables is almost endless and in the studies you cite damn near everything is self reported (and we all know how reliable that is). At best these papers are approximations. At worst they very well might be desperate fabrications from fevered "researchers" scratching like chickens over that next grant so they can publish something--anything--to make their next mortgage payment. Keep in mind those who grant the money aren't particularly interested in "researchers" who publish things that contradict the grantors' claims in their products.

My friend controls ALL of the above variables because he HAS TO or he will go broke. His margins are razor thin--in the pennies. You can bet his competition controls variables and the market will put anyone out of business who doesn't keep up. My friend can quote off the top of his head how many kilos of feed (and what macro-nutrient profile) is required/kilo of body weight per animal according to what time they are in their life. He controls feed within grams and marketable body weights of chickens withing 10's of grams and pigs within a few kilos. My friend is no stereotypical "pig farmer" who runs around with a slop bucket that you see on YouTube. If you saw his automated milking stations for thousands of cows--where no human touches the cows--you would simply not believe that degree of automation could be possible. In his pig and chicken slaughterhouses carcasses are scanned, weighed (by volume measurements) and sorted by lasers that automatically shift the carcasses down different lines (on the fly) depending upon whatever variable the market desires at that time. For example, Asian markets prefer dark meat and American/European markets prefer white meat on chickens.

How many humans are in his data set?

That's the dilemma--isn't it? You can't do this with humans, as it would be unethical to put humans in his extremely controlled environments. The great irony in this (which I have discussed with Rip at length) is that his data may very well be the best data that is possible to get...period. Rip may be brash but who cares if his ideas are right?

Al Gore’s science also said California would be underwater by now.

Well said. Last I heard Gore still owned property in places that were supposed to be underwater now. The extreme value in my friend's data is he literally would be underwater if he were wrong.

You're right, the opinion of a pig farmer, who definitely has no ulterior motive, is absolutely more valuable than science.

Why have Santana as a guest (who you talk over the entire time) if you're gonna deny science and make shit up based upon the opinion of a "friend of a friend"?

I have known my friend for 25 years (I have known Rip for 12). What "ulterior motive" can my friend possibly have? It's not like I am going to compete with him. After all, I'm just a car guy and he's only a "pig farmer." Even so, he knows I train hard and want to lose excess body fat--who doesn't? I asked him his opinions and he gave them to me after he asked about my training and fat loss goals. He said, "This is what I would try if I were you?" I started on his suggestions 5 weeks ago and have lost 30 pounds, taken in my belt 4 holes and--most importantly--not lost much strength at all. I pressed 210 last night and curled 125 for a triple (the 125 curl is bumping on a PR).

The great thing about eating 300 grams of protein is it doesn't leave much appetite for pigging out on other things. Granted, eating 300 grams of protein a day is a challenge, but my results--and my training partner, Doug, has had the exact same results--are undeniable. Doug PR'd his press last night at 140 after losing 20 pounds (he didn't have as much to lose as I did). This week I maxed out a treadmill stress test at the cardiologist. They stopped the test because I wouldn't tap out--and here's the kicker--that's exactly what Rip predicted they would do before I went in. I am 53 with genetically high cholesterol and yet, 6 years after my heart attack my coronary arteries don't show any sign of narrowing on the nuclear stress test I just took compared to the cath lab results of 6 years ago when I had a stent placed. And NO...I don't take statins (that's a story for another day with another customer who is also a world leader in his field). Squatting 405 sure helps keep your legs from giving out when you are on an inclined treadmill chugging along with monitors stuck all over you. Admittedly, I do cardio (because of the heart attack) which keeps my overall strength numbers down, but I have to do it to keep my blood pressure in check. Maybe Rip and his dumb geology degree was right when he said, "There is never an absolute answer to everything, except of course that you have to do your squats."

David

[Yngvi]

Rip, it looks like the YouTube commenters have been triggered. They are now invading your digital home.