Better Cardio Better Fighter? | Starting Strength Radio Clips Better Cardio Better Fighter? | Starting Strength Radio Clips - Page 2

starting strength gym
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31

Thread: Better Cardio Better Fighter? | Starting Strength Radio Clips

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    59

    Default

    • phoenix arizona seminar date
    • texas seminar date
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonville_meat View Post
    This is a pretty bad argument in my mind, but I do see where they are coming from. Unfortunately, cardio is extremely important in fighting, in fact more important than strength in my mind, and any fighter in mixed martial arts would say the same. For dumb street fights, have some big strong gorilla beating on a small bjj guy or even wrestler is gonna end badly for him once he gasses in 20 seconds, gets reversed, and tapped.
    Iíve been training bjj for 6 years and I can tell you that given equal skill, the stronger guy will win. Everybody whos been training a while knows this.
    Most purple belts and above know when to conserve energy and when to exert it.

    Plus conditioning can be trained in a short amount of time.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Murphysboro, IL
    Posts
    29,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    Shouldn't we be drawing a distinction between "fighting" i.e. two hotheads in a bar, and "Fighting," i.e. two meatheads in a ring, octoagon or mat for multiple rounds of multiple minutes each, with the expectation that if one does not best the other, as any as 30 or so minutes of activity is going to be required? Just to be sure that we are discussing the same subject.
    Nick and his interlocutor seem to do just that, and do it quite well, especially given the relative brevity of the opening post in this thread. Your question seems to have already been answered.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I totally agree, but I also think itís crazy to dismiss cardio like I at least interpreted the clip. Since you grapple you know those guys who can set an insane pace and just drown you, thatís a super useful tool to have and does make someone a better fighter.

    Most fights end up on the ground even in one way or another. Also, to a lesser extent, the same logic applies to striking, but the ground is usually the best place for the athletically inferior guy to fight. I see big strong guys gas out after getting their first takedown stuffed, then get manhandled by a smaller guy who keeps coming. But I am not saying strength isnít important, I just won a bjj tournament and was very shocked at how much stronger I was than my competitors, which made things a great deal easier all thanks to the ss system

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    La Jolla California
    Posts
    1,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    Nick and his interlocutor seem to do just that, and do it quite well, especially given the relative brevity of the opening post in this thread. Your question seems to have already been answered.
    Totally disagree (as usual - why must we always disagree, Hurling? Its been like 8 years of quarrels between us on this board) Rip and Delgadillo discuss both types of combat situations and the first post of this thread discusses both. Subsequent posts seem to be conflating the two: are we talking about fighting or Fighting? I doubt any of us (rip and delgadillo, too) think that one's ability to endure multiple rounds of multiple minutes sport Fighting (esp boxing, jiu jitsu, judo, mma) is irrelvant to winning the contest. But for a street fight - fuck cardio, fuck enduring...win quick and go home.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    109

    Default

    i think people might be talking past each other a bit here. If we're talking about a competition where you're expected to fight for a set amount of time, obviously no one would say "cardio doesn't matter" and mean "it's fine if you gas before the fight is over."

    Seems to me that the people saying cardio is unimportant are saying something more like "get stronger, train for your sport (grappling/striking/mma), and relegate traditional 'cardio' training like roadwork to a distant third place." Maybe it would be useful to distinguish between having enough endurance for the length of the fight (whether 3 5 minute rounds or 20 seconds in a bar) and doing lots of cardio. Is doing cardio the best way to have the necessary endurance? Assuming you have adequate endurance, will being a cardio bunny (aka focusing on your "gas tank") give you an advantage as opposed to spending the same time and energy on strength or technique training (or recovering from same)?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Murphysboro, IL
    Posts
    29,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    Most of the fights I've seen end up in some kind of "ground and pound" type situation.
    Maybe bar fights and street brawls have changed since I was a cop engaging in them or breaking them up in the 70's. I don't think so, since I've seen more in person or on videos of all kinds since then although I didn't have any skin in their monkey dance games.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    Generally speaking the techniques involve isolating or controlling one side of the body ie left arm left leg then off balancing the opponent in that direction to move them to the ground and you on top. Plenty of youtube videos available if you are truly interested in the techniques.
    One of us may be missing my point. Then again, we may not agree on what "sweep" means. I practiced and competed in NCAA Judo throughout college, and in that sport at least, sweeps were done while standing up. J-ville's post seemed to imply that such a technique was being done while both combatants (although I think he may conflate competitors with combatants) are on the ground and horizontal, rather than standing up and vertical. I am very familiar with stand up foot sweeps. A little kuzushi with the hands along with a good pull, and Bob's your uncle.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    Apparently you are not a big fan of grappling?
    Like I said already Judo. Add to that, our team specialized in Ne-waza, especially chokes and strangles. It typically decimated our competition, who like most Judoka's eschewed mat technique for the flashy shoulder and leg throws. Along with the lesser respected sweeps.

    To which I might add, I know non-striking techniques just fine. To wit, chokes, strangles, arm bars, joint locks, etc. What I am not enthused about is the generalized go-to and nebulous rubric so many throw around loosely called "grappling." That term simply conveys an image of homoerotic writhing, hip thrusting, and heaving as a transition toward something more useful and effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    While I understand the desire to stay upright while fighting lots of times you end up on the ground plus its fun to train anyway.
    I quit doing martial arts things for the mere "fun" of it when I decided to get into law enforcement. Then my practice of the arts were conducted as a tool to allow me to be more effective in protecting myself and others. Although I did continue to compete in Judo as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiigelec View Post
    Most of those ground and pound fights I've witnessed involved some kind of wrestling background who went for the quick take down got on top and started punching...
    Good for them. But once again, are you talking about sports? Or a real-ass fight?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    59

    Default

    I would argue that given equal skill the bigger, stronger guy dictates the position and therefore dictates the pace. A guy who can squat 500lbs moves or controls a body with less effort than a guy who squats 200lbs.

    Even when dog tired I can usually manage to get to side control from a scramble or sweep and exert minimal energy and recover while my opponent has to try his best to hip escape away, get my 230lb frame off of him and not lose an arm in the process.

    Hell, there have been plenty of times where iíve won rounds in training against guys who were much better than me and with better cardio, but just werenít as big or strong.

    I think what coach rip and delgadillo are explaining is that the conditioning a fighter needs is trained on the mats. Time in the gym is best spent with the barbell.

    Many of my teammates, who iíve referred to starting strength would agree. One guy even trains at the new SS gym here in Austin and absolutely loves being a stronger version of himself on the mats.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Manhattan
    Posts
    1,743

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tompaynter View Post
    i think people might be talking past each other a bit here. If we're talking about a competition where you're expected to fight for a set amount of time, obviously no one would say "cardio doesn't matter" and mean "it's fine if you gas before the fight is over."

    Seems to me that the people saying cardio is unimportant are saying something more like "get stronger, train for your sport (grappling/striking/mma), and relegate traditional 'cardio' training like roadwork to a distant third place." Maybe it would be useful to distinguish between having enough endurance for the length of the fight (whether 3 5 minute rounds or 20 seconds in a bar) and doing lots of cardio. Is doing cardio the best way to have the necessary endurance? Assuming you have adequate endurance, will being a cardio bunny (aka focusing on your "gas tank") give you an advantage as opposed to spending the same time and energy on strength or technique training (or recovering from same)?
    Yes to all of this. People on this site realize the importance of strength. The problem is the general public and the fact that cardio is emphasized over strength in pretty much every area. Overall health, sports, even strength training. Yes by all means get stronger but don't you dare gain any weight! I think the biggest help would be an elite MMA competitor endorsing Starting Strength.(Maybe Julia will reach the top?) But it seems hard to even get anyone to try. Perhaps the point that needs to be emphasized in the martial arts world is the fact that every kick, punch, throw is more submaximal the stronger you are. I have a friend who recently did a program called Wimp to Warrior where you train for 6 months and finish with a real MMA fight. He was previously untrained. After a few months he said he was getting tired after a couple rounds and needed to figure out how to work more cardio in. I would imagine this is the most common thought process for anyone in that situation, just the same as anyone trying to lose weight immediately thinks they need to eat less and do more cardio. Its just ingrained in the culture and its taking quite a while to reverse it.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Murphysboro, IL
    Posts
    29,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    Totally disagree (as usual - why must we always disagree, Hurling? Its been like 8 years of quarrels between us on this board) Rip and Delgadillo discuss both types of combat situations and the first post of this thread discusses both. Subsequent posts seem to be conflating the two: are we talking about fighting or Fighting? I doubt any of us (rip and delgadillo, too) think that one's ability to endure multiple rounds of multiple minutes sport Fighting (esp boxing, jiu jitsu, judo, mma) is irrelvant to winning the contest. But for a street fight - fuck cardio, fuck enduring...win quick and go home.
    Perhaps it's a function of my aging brain, I'll be 69 in a few more weeks, but I don't recall we had all that much contention. That said, I have what Alexandra Eames said her father had, Irish Alzheimer's. Which in that context was only remembering who pissed you off. Even so, if you feel slighted, let my apology end it today.

    Bottom line? I don't see where we disagree in this thread. We seem to agree that this thread opened with a very good differentiation of combat sports from the monkey dance we primates engage in when likkered up or otherwise overwrought about dominance of the herd or something equally stupid. We also seem to agree that some several subsequent posters only seem capable of viewing this topic through the lens of their enthusiasm for body to body contact while lying down next to each other. Finally, given my own admittedly ancient and anecdotal observations and hands-on experiences, we seem to agree that cardio is a lesser factor when engaged in something other than a refereed cuddle fest.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    RS WY
    Posts
    710

    Default

    One of us may be missing my point. Then again, we may not agree on what "sweep" means. I practiced and competed in NCAA Judo throughout college, and in that sport at least, sweeps were done while standing up. J-ville's post seemed to imply that such a technique was being done while both combatants (although I think he may conflate competitors with combatants) are on the ground and horizontal, rather than standing up and vertical.
    Yes in Brazilian and/or Gracie Jiu Jitsu both combatants are generally horizontal and the technique called a "sweep" is where the combatant on the bottom reverses the position and ends up on top. Like I said a plethora of youtube videos available detailing the techniques in both sport and self defense applications, if you are interested in learning about them.

    Good for them. But once again, are you talking about sports? Or a real-ass fight?
    Well I don't recall seeing any refs or judges, the winners never got any medals and usually the police showed up but maybe I'm just ????confused????

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •