Rip: How to Fix Powerlifting Rip: How to Fix Powerlifting - Page 2

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Thread: Rip: How to Fix Powerlifting

  1. #11
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    What does it mean to "heave" a bench and how would it be judged?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    First, if touch-n-go becomes the standard we are going to have guys coming in trying to bounce extremely heavy weights off of their chest. This is an obvious liability that would need to be controlled for in some way. I'm not sure how to do this without enforcing a pause but I'm sure we can come up with something.
    You enforce it with red lights. You know what a touch-and-go without a big sink into the chest and a heave or a huge bounce looks like. If the lifter bounces or heaves, and this is illegal, you simply turn on the red lights, like you do for any rule violation.

    Second, the rack command stops the lifter from trying to "bench-press-into-the-rack." This is another obvious risk because if he misses the pins as he was barely locking out 405, the bar is likely come crashing down (onto the safeties hopefully). We've had to correct this on many novice lifters so it is a known phenomenon. The same goes for the unracking. I've coached an actual coach who combines the eccentric phase with the unracking of the bar (i.e. the bar comes off the hooks and immediately gets lowered with zero effort to get set up).
    RED LIGHTS. They must be used.

    I would like to add that the bench press should be performed in a monolift (NOT THE SQUAT THOUGH) because that eliminates the need for a spotter, makes the lift entirely the responsibility of the lifter, and allows the lifter to clear the face before even unracking the bar.
    This complicates the meet equipment situation, when the idea is to simplify it.

    In short, if we can control for the idiocy that we've all see with unmoderated bench presses, the unmoderated touch-n-go on a monolift should become the standard.
    We can control it, if the red lights are working.

  3. #13
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    Sorry to disagree after my last post to you but:

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    2) I disagree about sumo and bench hand width. Unless we are going to start measuring the distance the bar travels in all the lifts (which would help me as Im 6'4"), Im fine with shorties using their shortiness to complete a lift. For example, in bench, they should do away with the rings and just left everyone grab the angle they feel strongest in. Theres no width requirment for feet in the squat, why make one for hands in the bench? Get the best angle you can and squat push and pull. By the way, Strength Central has a video showing the WR in each class for deadlift - 1 for sumo and 1 for conventional. Up until about the 275 weight classes, the sumo record beats the convetional record. At 275, the convetionals start getting stronger than the sumos. As Rip pointed out, weight classes are height classes. Tall people pull convetional.YouTube
    I did a head slap about this after my own first post. We agree on this, mostly.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    3) I dont care about decorum in "sport". Powerlfitign is fun and so is heavy metal. I dont mind the spectacle. Its not a colonoscopy - its supposed to be fun. But yeah, watching benching is boring AF
    I haven't studied the USAPL's rules on this in detail, but I had to for the USPA's coaching certification test (which I passed, so YAY!). The instructor was at some pains and length during the lecture in 'splaining the expected standards of conduct from lifters, coaches and even the lifter's entourage or spectators. If they don't toe the line on orderly conduct with respect to not snorting ammonia caps or the obligatory close order combat to the face and body that some lifters think they require to succeed, their lifts will be red lighted, or not permitted to enter the platform. The onus is on the lifter, not only for their own conduct, but the conduct of coaches and supporters. I haven't seen this invoked in the 7 meets I was in, and I've seen a few careless snorts and slap fests in venues where there was no screen or barrier between lifters and the spectators. I thought and think these kind of antics are juvenile, but then I'm an old guy. The music, eh, a big so what as far as I am concerned. As much as I disdain rap, I have to confess that hearing the opening beats of the theme to 8 Mile did fire me up for my 1st attempt in the squat in Tulsa.

    So hey! We at least agree in part here.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    4) drugs are fine. Leave us alone.
    Drugs are anathema. If you take them feel free to compete in an untested fed. Given the Southern Powerlifting Federations free and easy approach even to their own rules, that might a good place to start. In the USPA drug tested division you get no waiver for TRT even. Which suits me fine. Don't need testosterone anyway. If I felt it was necessary to keep myself and DB in the pink (so to speak) I'd have continued on in the untested divisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You enforce it with red lights. You know what a touch-and-go without a big sink into the chest and a heave or a huge bounce looks like. If the lifter bounces or heaves, and this is illegal, you simply turn on the red lights, like you do for any rule violation.
    While I agree in general, the "beta testing" for this will be painful for many competitors. At least until a good written standard for the rulebook and some operational judging advice as well as illustrated exemplars, such as are seen in both the USAPL and USPA rulebooks, can be developed. Even then, the photo stills used in those rulebooks may convey how the bar should rest on the upper back and what actually constitutes below parallel represent static positions. Illustrating a heave, it seems to me almost requires a video. Perhaps a good photographer could convey that with 2-3 well done still shots.

    Then too, maybe all this concern of mine could be alleviated by running some trials off line from actual competition by the upper administrative ranks of the federation.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post

    This complicates the meet equipment situation, when the idea is to simplify it.
    It may be worth it to completely remove the influence of the the spotter and maintain consistency. This would make the lift 100% influenced by the lifter and I don't know that it would complicate it that much depending on the ease of adjustment.

    I agree on red lights. So what we are really discussing here is the "control of the bar" aspect. How do enforce control of the bar (e.g. not unracking-into-the-eccentric or not pressing-into-the-hooks) without commands? That is the real question I have. It becomes a bit more subjective at that point no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    While I agree in general, the "beta testing" for this will be painful for many competitors.
    Oh no!!! New rules??? How will they cope? I guess this is why they don't actually judge depth in the USPA, out of fear for the emotional well-being of the competitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    It may be worth it to completely remove the influence of the the spotter and maintain consistency. This would make the lift 100% influenced by the lifter and I don't know that it would complicate it that much depending on the ease of adjustment.
    If you're going to contest the bench press, I think you need some spotter protection in the event of a pec tear or other muscle belly injury that might occur while the lifter is trapped under the bar. If he tears, without a spotter he has to ride the thing all the way down to your safeties, which could turn a partial tear into a complete rupture.

    I agree on red lights. So what we are really discussing here is the "control of the bar" aspect. How do enforce control of the bar (e.g. not unracking-into-the-eccentric or not pressing-into-the-hooks) without commands? That is the real question I have. It becomes a bit more subjective at that point no?
    Again, you publish the rules about the control of the bar you expect the lifter to display, and you red light the infraction.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post


    If you're going to contest the bench press, I think you need some spotter protection in the event of a pec tear or other muscle belly injury that might occur while the lifter is trapped under the bar. If he tears, without a spotter he has to ride the thing all the way down to your safeties, which could turn a partial tear into a complete rupture.
    Valid point and justification for spotter involvement. How about having side spotters like we do on the squat? This will get the bar off of the lifter much faster and does not require a spotter to have to run towards the rear of the bench since part of a the rear spotter's job is to stay out of the lifter's eyesight.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Oh no!!! New rules??? How will they cope? I guess this is why they don't actually judge depth in the USPA,
    And from what do you derive this broad generalization? Personal observation?

    As I said earlier, they aren't perfect or always consistent, but judging in any sport never is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    And from what do you derive this broad generalization? Personal observation?
    YouTube

    I assume this was a record. If the records are high, you've got a problem.

  9. #19
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    The concerns about the prospects of consistent judging in a touch-and-go bench press with no heave and vertical forearms seem a little silly to me. Olympic weightlifting judges have to notice and evaluate much smaller imperfections which occur much faster and are easier to miss. This model of the bench press would undoubtedly make judging the lift a more difficult task, but if it makes the competition fairer then why shouldn't the judging be held to a higher standard?

  10. #20
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    They're not judging it consistently now.

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